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Eladola
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 612
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 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| netartemisa wrote: | | Didn't Plushenko pull out of 2002 Euros? Was it because of that same injury or for another reason? (I'm not actually commenting on the debate you have here, it is just a doubt that came to my mind when I read you) |
He did, But as far as i remember Mishin's "Excuse" for doing that was a need to gather and prepare for Olympics and for a new FS . |
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netartemisa
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Albacete (SPAIN)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Eladola wrote: | | netartemisa wrote: | | Didn't Plushenko pull out of 2002 Euros? Was it because of that same injury or for another reason? (I'm not actually commenting on the debate you have here, it is just a doubt that came to my mind when I read you) |
He did, But as far as i remember Mishin's "Excuse" for doing that was a need to gather and prepare for Olympics and for a new FS . |
Oh, ok, thanks for the answer!
_________________
Puedo pensar sin que sepan que pienso y mucho menos qué pienso // I can think while nobody knows I'm thinking or what I'm thinking. |
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lambielfan26
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dragonlady wrote: | Plushenko had an injury in 2001/2002 too. It wasn't so severe that it caused him to pull out of any competitions but it hampered his training and may have been the cause of that fall in the SP at SLC.
At the GPF in Kitchener that season, he struggled with his jumps and couldn't land a quad in practice despite numerous attempts. The introduction of his much anticipated "Art of Man" program was a complete disaster. I was said that he was coming back from an early season injury and not at 100% yet. The only way you would have noticed was his jumps. |
I was not at Kitchener like you so didnt see any of his practices but his jumps in competition were spot on and much better than in SLC there. His LP there was horrible though, even for his choreographic standards. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Pluushenko debuted his "Art of Man" program in Kitchener. It was the first (and mercifully the last) time he ever skated the program in public. Even by Plushenko's standards, the program was dreadful.
Mishin had been really talking up this program as taking Evgeny to a whole new level artistically. With Yagudin's "Winter" and "Man In The Iron Mask" getting such rave reviews, Team Plushenko was anxious to prove their guy was every bit as artistic as their rival. Afterwards Mishin said it was a great artistic achievement but that the judges and the audience just didn't get it. Riiiiight.
The Saturday morning Men's practice in Kitchener was one of the highlights of the event. Nobody skated to their music except in the most cursory manner. The guys had an impromptu quad competition that was fun for 5 of the guys.
For Plushenko, it was no fun at all. He was wearing his new LP costume which was one of the ugliest outfits I've ever seen on a male figure skater: a real "What Were They Thinking?" number. The rest of the guys were in practice clothes. The rest of the guys were loose and relaxed, chatting, laughing. Plushenko looked stressed and didn't even speak to the rest of the competitors. This can reasonably be attributed to his injury and the fact his season wasn't going well.
Every guy in the field had landed quads in competition except Todd Eldredge. I don't remember how it started but somebody landed a quad and then one by one all of the guys did a quad in a sort of "anything you can do, I can do better" sort of way. Even Todd landed a quad. Although he wasn't a part of the casual banter that preceded the first quad, Plushenko was the last skater to try the quad and he fell.
Next up was a quad combo. I think that Dinev and Honda had trouble with this one, landing the quad but not the second jump. Todd did a 4T/2T, Goebel and Yagudin did a 4T/3T, and Plushenko fell on his quad attempt. Last up, Goebel did a 4/3/2 but Yags "won" quad comp with a 4/3/3. Plushenko fell on his quad attempt and left the ice early.
It was quite the show. |
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lambielfan26
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Wow it was amazing Plushenko was that bad in practice. It shows what a great competitor he is that he jumped a well as he did in the actual competition then, even to that godawful program. |
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loveskating
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Dragonlady wrote: | Yes, all of those skaters were consistent and that is most definitely a factor in the number of titles they won.
But to suggest that Yagudin or Kwan had few transitions would be incorrect, at least while Kwan was working with Lori Nichol. After she was injured and changed choreographers, I would agree she had few transitions, but while she was with Nichol, every beat of the music had choreography. I think that these two skaters, and possibly Kurt Browning, were the template from which the designers of CoP decided what sort of skating they wanted to reward. |
I think that is mistaken. Choreography is not the same thing as transitions and variations.
Transitions refers to seamless movement between one element and another or skating real elements between required elements instead of strokes with flourishes of the arms. An example would be going straight from a sprial into a 2 axle, without any strokes, or a spreadeagle into a 3 axel like Boitano or Kulik did. An example would be a 3 turn into a 3 loop, or steps into af flip.
Variations would be more changes within the sprial sequence, for example, like a fan spiral or a serpentine sprial, not just the IE or OE spirals. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I know very well what transitions are and the difference between transitions and choreography. Kwan noteably did split falling leaf jumps, stag leaps, Charlottes, Ina Bauers, spread eagles and every element was connected to the next. She single handedly revived the whole concept of using "moves in the field" to connect her elements. This is a part of Lori Nichol's choreography for her most skilled skaters. |
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loveskating
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Dragonlady wrote: | | I know very well what transitions are and the difference between transitions and choreography. Kwan noteably did split falling leaf jumps, stag leaps, Charlottes, Ina Bauers, spread eagles and every element was connected to the next. She single handedly revived the whole concept of using "moves in the field" to connect her elements. This is a part of Lori Nichol's choreography for her most skilled skaters. |
Everyone did split falling leafs, stag leaps and Ina Bauers and spreadeagles! Kwan's split falling leaf was the best EVER, but lots of skaters did them! How can you claim these were unusual, much less that Kwan and Nichol revived moves in the field? And moves in the field were not even a concept until recently anyway, so what was to revive? The quality of much of Kwan's skating may have been unusual, but the elements were not. Only the Charlotte was "revived" by her if I recall. What she did that was unusual in her field before 2000 was the lutz in combination and steps into the second lutz.
COP Transitions refer more to doing such things without doing crossovers from one element to the other like spreadeagle into axel, spiral no edge change into jumps, etc. Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen both had it all over Kwan at her best as to transitions and variations on elements, including most required elements. |
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let`s talk
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| lambielfan26 wrote: | | Wow it was amazing Plushenko was that bad in practice. It shows what a great competitor he is that he jumped a well as he did in the actual competition then, even to that godawful program. |
Riiiight. Unbelievable. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| let`s talk wrote: | | Riiiight. Unbelievable. |
I wasn't the only person there to see it. A few hundred other people saw it too. It was a public practice. I certainly couldn't publically post it if it didn't really happen. |
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