International Skating Union

[lambielfan26]

Who would you consider the best skaters in each discipline to never win a World title. These would be mine:


Pairs:

1. Selezneva & Makarov- an extremely strong pair in the 80s but who had the misfortune to be part of a typically very deep Soviet team, first in the shadows of the great Valova & Vasiliev, then later also Gordeeva & Grinkov who most regard the greatest pair team of all time, and at the end of their career also eclipsed by a young Miskutionek & Dmitriev. They were seen as future of pairs by many after a surprise bronze at their first Olympics in 1984. They then moved up to a close 2nd behind Valova & Vasiliev at the 85 Worlds. Many were calling their first major win to come soon. However with the rise of Gordeeva & Grinkov they were dropped to the #3 Soviet pair and placed 4th at the 86 Worlds. They were 4th again in 87, and 4th at the 88 Olympics, before finally getting back on the podium at the 88 Worlds. They surprised some by continuing on but had to miss the 89 Worlds with injury. At their last Worlds in 1990 an unusual shaky performance from Gordeeva & Grinkov seemed to give them an opening to possibly finally win Worlds in possibly their Swan song, but despite skating fairly well they were dropped to 4th again, pushed off the podium by home country favorites Brasseur & Eisler and a young Miskutienok & Dmitriev. They seemed to get the message then and there (Suguri are you listening) that it was time to move on. They were a very strong technical team, but lacked some of the artistic quality and at times lacked consistency as well.

2. Zhangs- surprise, surprise, I am actually picking the Zhangs who people I am sure know are far from my favorites. Still for their technical abilities and consistency in their primes, and their sum of overall achievements, they are the next best to not win a World title. It is a virtual certainty at this point they will never win one as well so it is far to count them on this list. They were 2nd at Worlds three times and 2nd at the Olympics once. Their best chances to win a Worlds were 2006 and 2008. In 2006 they were the favorites with Totmianina & Marinin (and Shen & Zhou) out, but were upset by Pang & Tong. In 2008 they made a few minor mistakes and lost in a controversial decision to some (though I agreed with it) to the Germans who had more and more major mistakes. In both those cases had they gone clean they would have won if their competitors had skated the same way, but it wasnt to be.

3. Meno & Sand or the Carruthers- I really am not sure who to pick beteween these 2 pairs. Both were very good and consistent contenders for the U.S in pairs. Meno & Sand were an elegant and stylish team who won 3 World medals. Carruthers were a more acrobatic and exciting team who won an Olympic silver as their career highlight.

I dont count Kazahkova & Dmitriev since they won the Olympics. If I did though I would rank them 2nd just behind Selezneva & Makarov and ahead of the Zhangs. I didnt consider Kavaguti & Smirnov as they still could win a Worlds in the future, unlike the Zhangs.


Men:

1. Toller Cranston- the guy was a genuis and a true artist on the ice. Whatever one thinks of his eccentric personality, and many true artists tend to be a bit tormented anyway, he along with Curry were the ones who made it acceptable for the men for the first time to be truly balletic or artistic on the ice. Cranston was a different kind of artist than Curry though, Curry was more pure ballet on ice, while Cranston was wildly innovative and unique. Before them mens skating was largely jump, jump, jump, stroke, with the men skating like wooden planks, this still typifying the way the man Soviet and German rivals of Cranston, Curry, and Cousins would skate, the old school method of mens skating. Cranston was regarded by many as the greatest free skater in the World in the mid 70s but the compulsory figures were his downfall.

2. Paul Wylie- He almost seems like a strange choice in that his overall amateur career didnt have alot of real high points. However he was an extremely talented skater who many feel was robbed of the 1992 Olympic Gold medal. He went on to a phenomenal professional career. A true artist on the ice who had it all pretty much except for consistency. Some of his competitors had more technical content but Paul had enough to be competitive still.

3. Jozef Sabovcik- I picked him since he was an incredible jumper, probably one of the greatest of all time, he is the one many including Scott Hamilton landed the first clean quad of all time but was not ratified when many felt it should ahve been. He did not achieve what people thought he would at Worlds, never finishing higher than 4th despite being as high as 2nd entering the LP on multiple occasions, but did win a bronze at the Sarajevo Olympics. His best chance of the World title was 1986 after the runaway leader and defending Champions Alexander Fadeev bombed, but that was the year Fadeev, Orser, and Sabovcik all bombed, allowing an overlooked Brian Boitano to win his first major title. Like Paul went on to a long a very successful pro career.

I dont count Cousins, Kulik and Urmanov as both won an Olympics. If I did I would pick Cousins by far the best to not win a Worlds, Kulik 2nd, and Urmanov 3rd. I dont consider Chan who of course could win a Worlds in the future.



Dance:

1. Belbin & Agosto- I really feel it is them. I cant think who else it would be. When they burst on the scene with such promise and quickly passed a slew of veteran teams to rise to 2nd in the World it seemed their potential was limitless. People marveled at the quality of their twizzles, their overall technical ability, their basic skating strength, their enthusiasm and chemistry on the ice. After silvers at the 2005 Grand Prix final, 2005 Worlds, and 2006 Olympics, and with the champions Navka & Kostomarov retiring, and many oft he other lead veteran teams in the top group retiring or soon to retire, it looked like it might be a period of dominance, unless until a younger team like Virtue & Moir could possibly rise to challenge them. Instead despite continuing on a very successful career that led to many more medals, it was mostly frusteration on a quest to reach the top that had been long predicted for them, but never came. As teams kept retiring they kept getting passed by new ones, stagnating and even dropping to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, seeing older teams who they had passed previously beat them to major titles like the long underrated Denkova & Stayviski and even the usual ultimate hard luck team Delobel & Schoenfelder. Trying to reverse their fortunes they did everything, including moving to a new coach, the famed Natalia Linichuk, but then the Russian federation unexpectedly sent their top team to work with her as well. Their last major chance for a major title was the 2009 Worlds where the door was opened for them by the injury withdrawal of the defending Champions and dominant team of that seasons grand prix series Delobel & Schoenfelder, and the major injuries weakening both Domnina & Shabalin and Virtue & Moir. Despite all this clearing their path and skating as well as they could have, they still had to settle for silver behind a rather sluggish Domnina & Shabalin. They ended their careers in a somewhat cruel final twist being passed by younger teammates and dropping to 4th at the Olympics, again edged by their hobbled training mates for a major honor.

2. Blumburg & Seibert- Another exceptional American team who had the misfortune to be part of one of the toughest dance fields in history, facing Torvill & Dean the most dominant and arguably greatest dance team ever, Moiseeva & Minenkov, Bestiamanova & Bukin, and a young Klimova & Ponomarenko at various points from 81-85. They had some hard luck in their careers too, dropping from 3rd to 4th after the FD at the both the 81 and 82 Worlds, in 81 after a crash. Missing out the silver on a controversial split at the 83 Worlds, after placing decisively in 2nd in both the CD and OD coming up short on a 5-4 split in the FD. Then missing out on a bronze at the 84 Olympics by the narrowest margin until similar circumstances. In all they won 3 World bronzes behind some of the all time greatest teams.

3. Wilson & McCall- They were a great and very entertaining pair. The hierarchy of dance at the time meant they really didnt have much chance to ever win, and they also had teams like Bestiamanova & Bukin plus Klimova & Ponomarenko blocking their view on the podium. They did win 3 world bronzes, and an Olympic bronze, then beat B&B to win the World Pros, before McCall's tragic death.



Ladies:

1. Janet Lynn- some consider her the greatest skater ever. Just couldnt get those darn figures in order enough, and also faced the compulsory figures legend Trixi Schuba.

2. Caryn Kadavy- I just loved her skating so much I had to put her 2nd. She was the whole package really, just had problems with her nerves in competition, and was never considered the #1 American so politically was at a disadvantage too.

3. Sasha Cohen- regardless what you think of her basic skating she still was an extremely talented and special skater. Was a favorite to win major titles in the mid 2000s but never could quite get it done. Still has an impressive 7 straight top 4 finishes in World and Olympic competition, an Olympic silver, and 3 world medals- 2 of them silver. Won a Grand Prix final and many grand prix events in her career, in addition to a U.S title and 4 U.S silvers.

[Culturegeek]

I have a friend who always wants to consider Laurence Owen in the top three ladies.

[northtexasdude]

[Dragonlady]

How could you miss Josee Chouinard in the Ladies' list. Definitely a better skater than Sasha Cohen, but completely unable to hold her nerves together in competition.

[lambielfan26]

[Skater boy]

Chouinard had the potential to win gold - she just never got it together. Her jumps were huge, she had a warm and engaging personality, ironically she was kind of a Joannie rochette with more warmth and personality -she just let nerves get in the way.

[Skater boy]

Pairs

Khazakova and Dmitriev
Selezneva and Markov
BAess and THierbach

Dance

Belbin and Agosto
Wilson and McCall
Blumberg & Siebert


Men

Toller Cranston
Urmanov (Or did he win one??)
Abt (loved his style when he was on)

Ladies

Nancy Kerrigan
Josee Chouinard
Liz Manley

[Pookipichu]

Chouinard had a gorgeous lutz, I think she was a better skater, more engaging, more charismatic than Rochette but unluckily, she never had her "moment".

[Dragonlady]

[lilshorty]

Ladies

Surya Bonaly

One of my favorite skaters. Though she had an unconventional style, and her basic skating was nothing to write home about, she had a technical capability that very few others had. Plus, she could entertain a crowd. Many say that she was robbed of a world title in '93 for Oksana Baiul, whom she had previously beat at Europeans. Instead of being a good sport about it, she complained at 94 worlds after losing to Yuka Sato, and again at 95 worlds to an in her prime Chen Lu. In 1996, she suffered from injury and sat out a season, only to come back and be surpassed by younger, up and coming skaters like Michelle Kwan and Tara Lipinski. After experiencing years of what she deemed to be unfair judging, she finally drew the conclusion that an Olympic medal and a world title just wasn't meant to be. In her final amateur career performance at the 1998 Nagano Olympics LP, she gave the audience one last send off by performing a back flip--a prohibited move in competition. The judges' dissatisfaction was reflected in her scores when she was placed 10th overall. Bonaly then retired and went on to have a successful pro career. Very controversial, nevertheless quite entertaining, no one can argue that Surya Bonaly was one of the best ladies figure skaters of the 90s.

[lambielfan26]

[loveskating]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjHjeF5hoY

Choinard was never fully competent IMHO. Her skating was wild, undisciplined. She needed a better coach. Plus IMHO she was rather large and built poorly to be truly consistent on the jumps (its just the pure, scientific physics of the triple jumps I speak of, not a value or aesthetic judgment). Later on, Victoria Volchkova reminded me of her, although Victoria was more competent somewhat. Victoria just grew too tall to be consistent on her great jumps.

Bonaly was a very exciting skater, fun to watch, like a punk rocker of skating, not very skilled, but great heart and awesome power.

What burned me up about Bonaly's little public protest on the podium, however, was that it was her very conscious choice to disregard the standards of skating, which had been established by all kinds of skaters before her, so she was not in a position to protest IMHO. She chose to have her mother coach her, for instance and IMHO she really needed a better coach.

[Skater boy]

I thought Chouinard was quite athletic in many ways. Her jumps huge and explosive when she was on. Definitely more charisma than Joannie - though Joannie's elegance is starting to rub off on me.

[Virginia]

I agree with Liz Manley. When you look back at what she was doing -- she had triple lutz and triple flip (huge, clean jumps) in her '88 programs and was placed behind Witt, who didn't go beyond triple toe loop and triple sow. Not to mention more complex footwork, better position in her spins, more speed over the ice ... she truly was robbed, both at Calgary and at the Budapest Worlds a month later. Sure, Witt was more theatrical, but Manley was by far the better skater.

[lambielfan26]

Liz Manley had the triple lutz and triple loop, not the triple flip. She also won the LP in Calgary over Witt. Witt placed 1 spot higher in figures and 2 spots higher in the short program, which is why she won overall. Witt and Manley were placed too highly in the SP phase for their performances that ngiht relative the tohers. Manley would also not have won in Budapest even had she won the LP phase. I agree she should have won in Budapest though as she should have beaten Witt in the figures and LP both there.

[michigloani]

Janet Lynn and Sasha Cohen definitely for the ladies. Now granted that doesn't mean I think they deserved a win in certain years that they lost, just that titles don't necessarily translate into who has the most talent. And I think for someone who won so few major titles, Cohen specifically had many special gifts.

[loveskating]

[Dragonlady]

It makes me gag to see Sasha set above Janet Lynn. Ms. Lynn had the most amazing feet and was technically sound. Sasha had pretty positions. Huge difference.

Ilia never won Worlds. I think his best finish was a bronze.

Kurt not only never won an OGM, he never won an Olympic medal of ANY colour.

[Trilogy86]

Ilia finished 2nd in 1996 in Edmonton, but nevertheless no world championships.

[Winnipeg]

I wouldn't say she was one of the 'best over time' but Sarah Hughes won Oly Gold and only one bronze in Worlds.