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Skater boy
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Heaven
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 Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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>Wow, ARtur`s `partying`was a problem - I think many pairs wished that
was their problem. A few Olympic medals including gold - not too shabby. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| becool wrote: | | Yeah. I thought Artur's "partying" was a big part of their troubles. Elena/Anton were medaling at Europeans a year after her horrible injury. They were only 9th at Worlds, but that was due to a meltdown on their part. |
I always thought that was because Oksana was so far behind Artur's level that it took her a while to really become a top senior Pair's skater. Even overweight and out of shape, Artur could deliver.
You could say Artur Demetriev is Babe Ruth of Pairs skating. He turned up every Fall heavy and slow, and by March was trim, fit and at the top of his game. His record of two gold medals and one silver with two different partners over three Olympiads is unlikely to ever be equalled. |
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Skater boy
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Agreed but wasn`t there a russian lady who had maybe 3 pair gold. Irina Rodina - not sure but she was amazing too from what i found on you tube. |
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becool
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Skater boy wrote: | | Agreed but wasn`t there a russian lady who had maybe 3 pair gold. Irina Rodina - not sure but she was amazing too from what i found on you tube. |
Yes She had 3 Olympic golds and at least 10 World titles. She won titles with two different partners. I don't think her and her partners were that artistic, but technically they were clearly amazing and WOW
| Quote: |
>Wow, ARtur`s `partying`was a problem - I think many pairs wished that
was their problem. A few Olympic medals including gold - not too shabby. |
| Quote: |
I always thought that was because Oksana was so far behind Artur's level that it took her a while to really become a top senior Pair's skater. Even overweight and out of shape, Artur could deliver. |
He was making some mistakes and she was becoming more consistent than him. He was out of shape to the point where it was being talked about.... Of course though when your as experienced as Artur, you can afford that kind of thing. I loved Artur with his original partner though. Their 94 program is one of my absolute favorite programs...Looking at them and G/G and seeing pairs skating now. Just makes me sad. |
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lambielfan26
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| My feeling on skating today is ladies and dance are just getting better and better, while mens and pairs are returning to the stone ages. Actually that is the consensus of pretty much everyone it seems. It is funny how half the sport is going so strongly and the other half is so abysmal. |
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Culturegeek
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 486
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| lambielfan26 wrote: | | My feeling on skating today is ladies and dance are just getting better and better, while mens and pairs are returning to the stone ages. Actually that is the consensus of pretty much everyone it seems. It is funny how half the sport is going so strongly and the other half is so abysmal. |
Interesting. While I'd agree that the consensus on dance and pairs is what you say (and I agree with the consensus), I'm not entirely convinced that the consensus on the singles disciplines is as cut-and-dried as you portray it. |
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vmfan89
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 409
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| lambielfan26 wrote: | | My feeling on skating today is ladies and dance are just getting better and better, while mens and pairs are returning to the stone ages. Actually that is the consensus of pretty much everyone it seems. It is funny how half the sport is going so strongly and the other half is so abysmal. |
It's kind of weird, I often visit a French forum were most posters are European, and many of them keep saying that ice dance is dead. While many recognize that the Shpilband teams are great technically, they say that they've been doing the same coreography since they were juniors. For them, many teams today (V/M are especially criticized here) cannot interpret the music. Consequently, they say that the artistic side and original side of ice dance is abysmal. That's why many of them say that this is a very bad era for ice dance.
I of course, completely disagree with these opinions, but it's just to show how perceptions can be so different, especially from one area of the world to another. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| lambielfan26 wrote: | | My feeling on skating today is ladies and dance are just getting better and better, while mens and pairs are returning to the stone ages. Actually that is the consensus of pretty much everyone it seems. It is funny how half the sport is going so strongly and the other half is so abysmal. |
It certainly isn't my opinion, nor is it the opinion of those I attend competitions with. There are many on this board who don't share your opinion and you are the only person I have ever heard express the opinion that Lysachek is a low quality Olympic champion. |
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becool
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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There are good aspects of dance, and there are aspects of Dance in 6.0 that I miss...
In pairs, I love S/S they are a great team very innovative. They do IJS but they try to make it beautiful (although their death spiral too)
But in general you get a lot of these programs now that are just UGH. The teams as a whole aren't of the quality as in the past...Teams like G/G etc spoiled me. And then you get the fact that IJS encourages them to uglify their programs. I get most upset when I see whats been done to the death spiral. The different originators must be spinning in their graves. And then you have the poor Protopopovs who are alived to see this.. |
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anne-marie
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ice dancing has now an enormous lack of originality. Same steps side by side, same twizzles...= similar programs. Except a very few choreographies. |
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vmfan89
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 409
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| anne-marie wrote: | | Ice dancing has now an enormous lack of originality. Same steps side by side, same twizzles...= similar programs. Except a very few choreographies. |
See, that's what I meant. Everyone has such different perceptions that it's difficult to qualify what the best era is in any discipline. I enjoy Ice dancing now more than I ever have, but I can understand where you're coming from, especially because COP has very strict limits on what should be included in the programs.
Maybe it's just me, but I find Europeans and North Americans have very different input on ice dance. There are a lot of Canadians and Americans on this board, so it's nice to have posters from different countries outside of North America give some input. I don't know what country you're from, but it's still cool to have someone with a different opinion.
Lol, just noticed that we are WAY off topic here. |
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lambielfan26
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| vmfan89 wrote: | | lambielfan26 wrote: | | My feeling on skating today is ladies and dance are just getting better and better, while mens and pairs are returning to the stone ages. Actually that is the consensus of pretty much everyone it seems. It is funny how half the sport is going so strongly and the other half is so abysmal. |
It's kind of weird, I often visit a French forum were most posters are European, and many of them keep saying that ice dance is dead. While many recognize that the Shpilband teams are great technically, they say that they've been doing the same coreography since they were juniors. For them, many teams today (V/M are especially criticized here) cannot interpret the music. Consequently, they say that the artistic side and original side of ice dance is abysmal. That's why many of them say that this is a very bad era for ice dance.
I of course, completely disagree with these opinions, but it's just to show how perceptions can be so different, especially from one area of the world to another. |
I suspect many of the Europeans are just dissapointed that their teams are not better than they were in years past which is true. The Europeans are much weaker in dance than they used to be, but the top North American teams are unbelievable and take the technical side of ice dancing to a new level to what it has been in a long time. Europe also has some promising teams, especialy from Russia, so hopefully we will see the European strength in ice dancing come back too and then it will be even better, but the standard of ice dancing now is extremely high at the very top. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| lambielfan26 wrote: | | I suspect many of the Europeans are just dissapointed that their teams are not better than they were in years past which is true. |
That's a very condescending comment to make about European dance fans which completely denies any sort of esthetic difference between the European and North American schools of ice dance. Some of my European friends are not at all fans of the North American school of dance, and especially Zueva and Sphilband.
I have some European friends, and fans of European dance who love Virtue & Moir and who think they are very deserving Olympic Champions as well. But to suggest that this is simply sour grapes on the part of European is very wrong-headed. |
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bumphystars
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| vmfan89 wrote: | | For them, many teams today (V/M are especially criticized here) cannot interpret the music. |
Thanks for posting these comments, vmfan, it is interesting to hear "the other side."
But, really? V/M weren't interpreting their music in the Flamenco? Huh? |
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Skater boy
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Heaven
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| So I guess we will have to wait and see if V and T become a team. There are several hurdles the Ukraine skating assoc., a try out and if they do skate together will they gel and get their timing down fast. |
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becool
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bumphystars wrote: | | vmfan89 wrote: | | For them, many teams today (V/M are especially criticized here) cannot interpret the music. |
Thanks for posting these comments, vmfan, it is interesting to hear "the other side."
But, really? V/M weren't interpreting their music in the Flamenco? Huh? |
Many feel if you were to compare V/M's Flamingo to A/P's Flamingo in Salt Lake. That A/P capture the mood of the dance better. In that scenario it more has to do with the comparisions between Tessa and Anissina. And the fact that some find Anissina far more believable as a Flamingo dancer.
Scott Moir is one of the best male dancers ever. And he's simply brilliant in the Flamingo. (I like him better than Gwendel but Gwendel was believable in his role)
But Tessa, well she is a wonderful skater with beautiful lines and posture and great skating skills too, but when it comes to expression... But that's just different tastes. I love V/M's Flamingo, but thats because I'm normally watching Scott. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| becool wrote: | | In that scenario it more has to do with the comparisions between Tessa and Anissina. And the fact that some find Anissina far more believable as a Flamingo dancer. |
When I watched A&P I found my eyes drawn to Gwendal, but that's just me. 
I would say that both dances were very, very good. V&M had the more technically difficult dance so it's hard to make comparisons. |
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Skater boy
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Heaven
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The FLamingo or the flamenco? Is the Flamingo referring to one foot skating and twizzles? Maybe I missed something. If it is one foot skating then I would say V and M were better than the French of yester year. I agree though if it was the character of the Flamenco Anissana or a Bestimianova or even a Navka would be hard to beat. |
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becool
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Skater boy wrote: | | The FLamingo or the flamenco? Is the Flamingo referring to one foot skating and twizzles? Maybe I missed something. If it is one foot skating then I would say V and M were better than the French of yester year. I agree though if it was the character of the Flamenco Anissana or a Bestimianova or even a Navka would be hard to beat. |
about my typo.
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When I watched A&P I found my eyes drawn to Gwendal, but that's just me.
I would say that both dances were very, very good. V&M had the more technically difficult dance so it's hard to make comparisons |
They watching Scott wasn't my point. Of course in every team there can be one you watch more. However, the point I was making and that has nothing to do with technical difficulty. Was that Anissina and Gwendel both together did a great job capturing the mood/character of the dance. They were both very believable as Flamenco dancers.
With Virtue/Moir, I felt Scott was believable as a flamenco dancer, but Tessa not so much. I think though that some of that on Tessa's part is just age and experience and with time I think that part of her skating could be developed more. |
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netartemisa
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Albacete (SPAIN)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| becool wrote: | | With Virtue/Moir, I felt Scott was believable as a flamenco dancer, but Tessa not so much. I think though that some of that on Tessa's part is just age and experience and with time I think that part of her skating could be developed more. |
I partially agree with this; I think Scott did a better job with the expression and the general impersonation (sp?), and maybe she didn't look as "strong" as he looked, although I still liked them both anyway. And it is also hard to make a comparison with A/P since they were older and had more experience, as you also said.
And by the way, I'm thrilled to know for sure how things are working between Volosozhar and Trankov, but I guess we'll just have to wait!
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Puedo pensar sin que sepan que pienso y mucho menos qué pienso // I can think while nobody knows I'm thinking or what I'm thinking. |
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