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nowthen
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 84
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 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bad things weren't said about Plushenko just because he decided to come back-The ISU sent out his gold medal winning free skate as an example of bad judging! The ISU itself!!! |
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Gertrude
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| nowthen wrote: | | Bad things weren't said about Plushenko just because he decided to come back-The ISU sent out his gold medal winning free skate as an example of bad judging! The ISU itself!!! |
Are you quite sure? I have understood that Plushenko´s 2006 freeskate video clip has served as an example of a bad CoP-program. That video was withdrawn as soon as it was known that Plushenko is coming back for the 2009-2010 season. |
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anne-marie
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Gertrude wrote: | | Are you quite sure? I have understood that Plushenko´s 2006 freeskate video clip has served as an example of a bad CoP-program. That video was withdrawn as soon as it was known that Plushenko is coming back for the 2009-2010 season. |
Plushenko programs at Turin are still on youtube  |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| loveskating wrote: | | I do not know where this incessent harping on staying in came from, but I have always disliked it. If the skater wants to, fine (I get the feeling V&M actually want to stay in, for example), but I have the feeling many of them are afraid to stop and I think that is sad. |
The incessant harping to stay eligible came from Speedy. He wants the Stars to stick around so the ISU can make money from them. He hates it when the pro shows and competitions make money of the stars the ISU created. That's why he set out to destroy the pro competition circuit in the 90's and he succeeded. The World Pro competition was the last one to die.
Unless you are a World or Olympic medalist, it's not easy to make a living as a pro skater any more.
That's another reason why skaters stay in. |
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AliasJohnDoe
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 1500
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I've never enjoyed SOI or COI shows with Pros. I always enjoyed seeing Pros compete against one another in competitions. There was even a Professional "GP-type" competition, complete with a Final, in the mid-90's. Does anyone remember what that competition was called? I rather enjoyed it.
I miss Pro comps. 
ETA: Found the Pro Comp. Lots of competitors. http://www.goldenskate.com/competitions/proam/ladies.shtml |
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nowthen
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Gertrude wrote: | | nowthen wrote: | | Bad things weren't said about Plushenko just because he decided to come back-The ISU sent out his gold medal winning free skate as an example of bad judging! The ISU itself!!! |
Are you quite sure? I have understood that Plushenko´s 2006 freeskate video clip has served as an example of a bad CoP-program. That video was withdrawn as soon as it was known that Plushenko is coming back for the 2009-2010 season. |
I guess you can say it was sent as a bad COP program that was judged too highly. Emphasis on the Judged part not the COP Program part. It was sent to judges not skaters. The video had things like "he got a 7 on transitions-he should have recieved a 3." Of course Inman was in charge and if you don't do what Inman says a transition is WATCH OUT!!! |
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lambielfan26
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mashi88 wrote: | | lambielfan26 wrote: | | mashi88 wrote: | | lambielfan26 wrote: | | Yu Na is already well beyond Urmanov and Hughes. She has set multiple WR scores, has won Worlds handily, has won the LP at Worlds 3 times, has won the GP final 3 times, and other than a couple others she was injured has mostly dominated womens skating for the last quadrennial. |
I am really baffled at why you think she will definitely dominate if she were not injured. It's not like her main competitor performed to her potential most of the time either. If you apply the "if" condition to Yuna, you have to apply the same for Mao. If she were healthy, she may have but it's not a given since the judges scored them pretty closely back then. It's tricky to base assumptions on hypothetical situations, so I think you can only base it on actual results. And based on that, she dominated for the last two years, not the whole quadrennial. |
Mao did not skate her best at either the 2007 or 2008 Worlds. Hence why she lost to Ando at the 2007 Worlds and nearly to an overmarked Kostner at the 2008 Worlds. Her LP at the 2007 Worlds was brilliant but her short program error was enough she didnt even quite catch Ando- who herself was considerably back of Kim already after the SP. Kim even with a horrible back injury won the short program at the 2007 Worlds and based on her skating all season "likely" would have had little problem staying in front of Ando healthy considering she could afford atleast one fall. As for the 2008 Worlds Kim even with an even worse back injury than 2008 won the long program and missed winning by a tiny margin overall. |
Exactly. That's what I am saying. You're saying Kim didn't skate her best due to injuries. Mao didn't skate her best due to other reasons such as nerves. All I am saying it is not possible to know who would have won if the did skate to their potential during those years. I don't think it's fair to speculate by only applying the "if" condition to one skater while conveniently ignoring it for the other. You have to do it for both. In my opinion, for the first season, Mao had the edge. She gave it up due to her nerves both times. The second season, it was a pretty close call between the two. I remember their PCS scores was awfully close the entire season. It depended on who the judges thought performed better in that particular competition. |
But Mao was NOT injured. Thus there is no what if for her in those cases. |
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Culturegeek
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 486
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nowthen wrote: | | Gertrude wrote: | | nowthen wrote: | | Bad things weren't said about Plushenko just because he decided to come back-The ISU sent out his gold medal winning free skate as an example of bad judging! The ISU itself!!! |
Are you quite sure? I have understood that Plushenko´s 2006 freeskate video clip has served as an example of a bad CoP-program. That video was withdrawn as soon as it was known that Plushenko is coming back for the 2009-2010 season. |
I guess you can say it was sent as a bad COP program that was judged too highly. Emphasis on the Judged part not the COP Program part. It was sent to judges not skaters. The video had things like "he got a 7 on transitions-he should have recieved a 3." Of course Inman was in charge and if you don't do what Inman says a transition is WATCH OUT!!! |
Post-Euros 2010, Plushenko himself pointed out that he didn't do very many transitions at all. The Inman comment was both decontextualized and in poor taste, but I hardly think your comment is fair. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mao did skate to her potential at Worlds this year and she barely beat an exhausted and under-achieving Kim. Mao needs to get back what she lost in pursuit of the 3A, or hope Kim gets distracted by her post-Olympic opportunities and retires.
I just want both women to remain healthy. Yu-Na has already has hip problems due to over-training and those could re-occur if her training isn't carefully manager. Mao's jump content is so demanding that her risk of career ending injury is very high. It is such a treat to watch either of them skate, I just want to see this rivalry continue. |
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mashi88
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Dragonlady wrote: | Mao did skate to her potential at Worlds this year and she barely beat an exhausted and under-achieving Kim. Mao needs to get back what she lost in pursuit of the 3A, or hope Kim gets distracted by her post-Olympic opportunities and retires.
I just want both women to remain healthy. Yu-Na has already has hip problems due to over-training and those could re-occur if her training isn't carefully manager. Mao's jump content is so demanding that her risk of career ending injury is very high. It is such a treat to watch either of them skate, I just want to see this rivalry continue. |
I wouldn't consider Mao's recent recovery from her slump to be reaching her potential but whatever, everyone has their own take on it. Personally, I hope the two skaters can be appreciated and evaluated for their own unique merits rather than continued to be entangled in this rivalry thing. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| mashi88 wrote: | | I wouldn't consider Mao's recent recovery from her slump to be reaching her potential but whatever, everyone has their own take on it. Personally, I hope the two skaters can be appreciated and evaluated for their own unique merits rather than continued to be entangled in this rivalry thing. |
She skated the best two programs she is currently capable of skating with no falls or major errors. That's skating to your potential. |
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Gertrude
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| anne-marie wrote: | | Gertrude wrote: | | Are you quite sure? I have understood that Plushenko´s 2006 freeskate video clip has served as an example of a bad CoP-program. That video was withdrawn as soon as it was known that Plushenko is coming back for the 2009-2010 season. |
Plushenko programs at Turin are still on youtube |
Do you think that ISU put them there, perhaps  ? On youtube you can find performaces from lots and lots of skaters from various events posted by skating fans. |
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becool
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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But Mao was NOT injured. Thus there is no what if for her in those cases |
We actually don't know that. I mean clearly Yu-na was extremely injured, having to skip out of some competitions. But as for Mao, if I understand correctly Mao hates talking about her injuries, but yes she has them. Mao is very much a no excuses kind of girl, and that's something I rather admire about her. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| becool wrote: | | We actually don't know that. I mean clearly Yu-na was extremely injured, having to skip out of some competitions. But as for Mao, if I understand correctly Mao hates talking about her injuries, but yes she has them. Mao is very much a no excuses kind of girl, and that's something I rather admire about her. |
Every skater has soft tissue injuries which don't impede their ability to compete. But Mao has never suffered a major injury nor has she ever pulled out of a competition due to an inability to skate. So yes, we do know that. |
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ClockwiseSpinner
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 153
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| I am scared Mao could stop her career for an injury. She really pushes her body to the limit, doing extremely risky jumps like the 3A. The good thing is that she is so so so light when she lands, and even when she falls on the 3A (that happened many times this season) she always wake up as if nothing happened. Let's hope she can skate at these levels for many years. |
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loveskating
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| becool wrote: | | Quote: |
But Mao was NOT injured. Thus there is no what if for her in those cases |
We actually don't know that. I mean clearly Yu-na was extremely injured, having to skip out of some competitions. But as for Mao, if I understand correctly Mao hates talking about her injuries, but yes she has them. Mao is very much a no excuses kind of girl, and that's something I rather admire about her. |
Sorry, but for me it is no longer obvious that skipping a competition means you are seriously injured. Numerous top skaters claim injuries we all know very well they don't have, and there is speculation that either they are too exhausted to skate, or they don't want to risk being beaten by a rival. I'm not saying this was the case with Yu Na, but speculatively it could have been. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 3662
Location: Edge of reason
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:23 am Post subject: |
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There was never any question that Yu-Na was injured and seriously so. Her injury involved inflamation of the muscles and could have potentially ended her career. A lot of people were holding their collective breaths on the outcome of the treatment.
I wasn't aware there was ever any question or speculation regarding this. |
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northtexasdude
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| so Flatt, Wagner, Zhang, Kostner are still on for NHK. Its getting closer! anyone seen any of them skate recently? any improvements? music? |
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chuckiem
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 3957
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Wagner competed at Liberty and Skate Wilmington. She scored 54.55 in the SP at Liberty, and 52.81/100.36 at Skate Wilmington.
Flatt will compete at the Glacier Falls Summer Classic in Anaheim CA this coming weekend.
Caroline Zhang usually competes at Golden West, to be held 9/2-5 in Culver City CA.
There don't seem to be any plans for Kostner to compete during the summer, but she might turn up at Nebelhorn or Finlandia in the early fall. |
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lilshorty
Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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There was a training video of Carolina Kostner posted on youtube where she skated her long program to Claude Debussy's "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" choreographed by Lori Nichol. The video is now listed as private since it was posted without permission. In the video she didn't do any jumps, but she paced herself slower and skated more to the music. She also showed more expressiveness.
Flatt and Zhang are still mum on their music choices. Flatt is set to skate at the Glacier Summer Classic in Anaheim, CA this week.
Wagner won Senior ladies SP group A at Liberty summer competition, and won both the sp and lp events at Skate Wilmington last week. She is skating to "Kashmir" by Led Zeppelin for her sp, and Malaguena for her lp. |
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