2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:13 pm

FREE DANCE

1 124.70 64.70 60.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 0.00 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR All elements L4
2 120.78 62.79 57.99 9.50 9.43 9.71 9.75 9.93 0.00 Kaitlin WEAVER / Andrew POJE SILi3 all else L4
3 113.71 57.23 56.48 9.25 9.32 9.46 9.54 9.50 0.00 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER STw2, CiSt3, all else L4
4 109.76 58.33 51.54 8.36 8.46 8.57 8.75 8.82 0.00 Carolanne SOUCISSE / Shane FIRUS CiSt3 all else L4
5 98.35 53.14 45.21 7.46 7.36 7.57 7.61 7.68 0.00 Sarah ARNOLD / Thomas WILLIAMS SeSt3, DiSt3 all else L4
6 90.90 47.28 43.62 7.14 7.14 7.36 7.39 7.32 0.00 Haley SALES / Nikolas WAMSTEEKER CiSt2, DiSt2,SIli3 all else L4
7 88.84 49.13 39.71 6.50 6.32 6.75 6.82 6.71 0.00 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS CoSp2, CiSt3, DiSt3 all else L4
8 75.70 40.91 34.79 5.82 5.57 5.86 5.89 5.86 0.00 Gina CIPRIANO / Jake RICHARDSON RoLi2, DiSt2, CoSp3, CiSt3 all else L4
9 75.42 42.12 33.30 5.43 5.32 5.43 5.82 5.75 0.00 Ravie CUNNINGHAM / Cedar BRIDGEWOOD STw2, CiSt2, DiSt2, all else L4
10 68.93 39.80 30.13 5.07 4.86 5.00 5.18 5.00 1.00 Vanessa CHARTRAND / Alexander SEIDEL MiSt2, CiSt2, CuLI3-ext lift, all else L4


FINAL RESULTS ICE DANCE

1 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR 209.82 1 1
2 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER 192.08 2 3
3 Kaitlin WEAVER / Andrew POJE 191.09 4 2
4 Carolanne SOUCISSE / Shane FIRUS 180.73 3 4
5 Sarah ARNOLD / Thomas WILLIAMS 158.53 5 5
6 Haley SALES / Nikolas WAMSTEEKER 154.74 6 6
7 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS 146.22 7 7
8 Gina CIPRIANO / Jake RICHARDSON 126.89 8 8
9 Ravie CUNNINGHAM / Cedar BRIDGEWOOD 122.78 9 9
10 Vanessa CHARTRAND / Alexander SEIDEL 111.31 10 10
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:22 pm

LADIES FREE SKATE

1 - 151.90 76.63 75.27 9.43 9.14 9.61 9.43 9.43 0.00 Gabrielle DALEMAN 3t+3t, 3z, 3f!, 3z+2t+2t, 3lo, 2a, 3s^2a
2 - 147.32 72.45 75.87 9.36 9.39 9.32 9.71 9.64 1.00 Kaetlyn OSMOND 3f+3t, 2a+3t, 3z, 3lo-fo, 3f↓, 3s+2t+1lo, 2a
3 - 115.66 58.21 58.45 7.39 7.00 7.25 7.46 7.43 1.00 Larkyn AUSTMAN 3f+2t, 3lo, 3z-so, 2a+3t<↓, 3s+2t+2lo, 3t-so, 3s
4 - 112.02 52.29 60.73 7.50 7.32 7.50 7.82 7.82 1.00 Alaine CHARTRAND 3z, 3f↓, 2a+1lo+3s, 3lo<, 3z<+rep, 3s, 2a
5 - 108.06 57.60 50.46 6.00 6.04 6.57 6.43 6.50 0.00 Aurora COTOP 2a+3t<, 3f, 3z, 3t+1lo+2s, 2a+2t, 3lo, 3s
6 - 104.71 55.43 49.28 6.18 5.86 6.18 6.29 6.29 0.00 Kim DEGUISE LEVEILLEE 3f+2t, 3f, 3lo+2t+2lo, 2a^2a, 3s, 3lo, 3t
7 - 102.78 51.88 50.90 6.39 6.14 6.29 6.50 6.50 0.00 Alicia PINEAULT 3z, 2f!, 2a+2t+2lo, 3lo, 3s+2t, 2a+1lo<+2s*, 3t
8 - 99.35 43.89 56.46 6.93 6.68 7.04 7.25 7.39 1.00 Michelle LONG 2a, 3f+2t, 3f, 1lo, 2a, 2s+1lo+2s, 3lo↓
9 - 96.05 47.02 50.03 6.46 6.14 6.07 6.46 6.14 1.00 Sarah TAMURA 3z+3t, 3s, 3fe<↓, 2z<<, 3lo, 2a+2t, 2a+2t+1lo
10 - 93.95 46.79 48.16 6.25 5.75 5.96 6.14 6.00 1.00 Kelsey WONG 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3lo<, 3f<<↓, 2a+1lo+2s<<, 3t, 2a
11 - 91.22 41.44 51.78 6.54 6.29 6.29 6.64 6.61 2.00 Sophie LAROUCHE 3t+2t, 3lo, 3s↓, 2a<↓, 3t, 2s, 2a+1t
12 - 91.00 46.51 45.49 5.96 5.57 5.50 5.86 5.54 1.00 Emy DECELLES 2a+3t, 3f↓, 1z!, 3lo<, 3f<+2t, 2a+2t+1lo, 3t
13 - 90.60 46.95 43.65 5.68 5.25 5.50 5.46 5.39 0.00 Jane GRAY 3z, 1a+1lo+3s, 3lo+2t, 3lo, 3s+2t, 1a, 1f
14 - 87.59 44.83 44.86 6.00 5.50 5.32 5.79 5.43 2.00 Amanda TOBIN 3z<<, 3f<↓, 2a+3t↓, 3s, 3lo, 3s+2t, 2a+2t
15 - 83.75 37.63 48.12 6.00 5.86 5.86 6.21 6.14 2.00 Aislinn GANCI 3lo, 1f, 3s<+2t, 3t, 2a↓, 3s, 2a↓
16 - 83.27 43.64 40.63 5.39 4.96 5.11 5.04 5.07 1.00 Helene CARLE 3lo, 2a+3t, 3s, 3lo↓+rep, 3s+2t, 2f, 1a
17 - 82.95 38.04 48.91 5.86 5.82 6.04 6.46 6.39 4.00 Triena ROBINSON 3s+2t, 3t, 2a↓, 2f+2lo, 1s, 2a↓, 2f+2t+2lo<↓
18 - 78.92 43.21 37.71 5.00 4.43 4.79 4.71 4.64 2.00 Maysie POLIZIANI 3t+2t, 3lo↓, 3lo+2t, 3t, 3s↓, 2a, 2a+1lo+2s


FINAL STANDINGS LADIES

1 - Gabrielle DALEMAN 229.78 1 1
2 - Kaetlyn OSMOND 218.73 2 2
3 - Larkyn AUSTMAN 169.62 6 3
4 - Alaine CHARTRAND 164.21 9 4
5 - Aurora COTOP 156.89 14 5
6 - Kim DEGUISE LEVEILLEE 154.41 11 6
7 - Michelle LONG 153.46 4 8
8 - Alicia PINEAULT 152.21 12 7
9 - Sarah TAMURA 150.39 3 9
10 - Sophie LAROUCHE 144.09 7 11
11 - Kelsey WONG 142.90 13 10
12 - Emy DECELLES 139.55 15 12
13 - Amanda TOBIN 139.54 10 14
14 - Jane GRAY 137.11 16 13
15 - Triena ROBINSON 136.91 5 17
16 - Aislinn GANCI 136.52 8 15
17 - Helene CARLE 123.17 17 16
18 - Maysie POLIZIANI 118.77 18 18
Last edited by chuckiem on Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Maleeva » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:35 pm

One judge gave Gabby all 10s for PCS??? wow!!!
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Maleeva » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:38 pm

Will Larkyn Austman get the automatic bid to Pyeongchang since she came in third? I don’t know if Canada treats their nationals as a 100% Olympic trial.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Maleeva » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Except for two 2s,Virtue and Moir received 3s on GOE for every element from both the short and free dances. Except for nine 9.75s, they received 10s for every PCS from both the short and free dances. They received level 4 on every element from both dances.

My lord that has to be unprecedented, even at a nationals!!!
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:50 pm

Maleeva wrote:Will Larkyn Austman get the automatic bid to Pyeongchang since she came in third? I don’t know if Canada treats their nationals as a 100% Olympic trial.


What can they do, send Larkyn and Alaine to 4CC for a skateoff? That way, both would be exhausted and whoever won wouldn't have much left over for Pyeongchang. IMO, Larkyn clearly outskated Alaine, who had her usual missed combos and URs.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:41 am

PAIRS FREE SKATE

1 - 152.77 77.83 75.94 9.43 9.46 9.39 9.61 9.57 1.00 Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD ↓throw 4s
2 - 144.49 73.64 70.85 8.71 8.79 8.96 8.93 8.89 0.00 Julianne SEGUIN / Charlie BILODEAU
3 - 141.57 71.70 69.70 8.46 8.61 8.82 8.89 8.89 0.00 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO 2a+1lo<+3s<
4 - 125.08 59.15 66.93 8.36 8.32 8.11 8.50 8.54 1.00 Lyubov ILIUSHECHKINA / Dylan MOSCOVITCH ↓3t combo; 2s
5 - 120.26 61.75 58.51 7.07 7.18 7.43 7.50 7.39 0.00 Evelyn WALSH / Trennt MICHAUD
6 - 117.36 59.34 58.02 7.14 7.25 7.29 7.36 7.18 0.00 Camille RUEST / Andrew WOLFE
7 - 114.78 59.82 54.96 7.00 6.82 6.96 6.89 6.68 0.00 Sydney KOLODZIEJ / Maxime DESCHAMPS


FINAL STANDINGS PAIRS

1 - Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD 234.55 1 1
2 - Julianne SEGUIN / Charlie BILODEAU 213.00 2 2
3 - Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO 209.85 3 3
4 - Lyubov ILIUSHECHKINA / Dylan MOSCOVITCH 190.53 4 4
5 - Evelyn WALSH / Trennt MICHAUD 182.87 5 5
6 - Camille RUEST / Andrew WOLFE 177.54 6 6
7 - Sydney KOLODZIEJ / Maxime DESCHAMPS 171.20 7 7
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby bumphystars » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:00 am

Maleeva wrote:Except for two 2s,Virtue and Moir received 3s on GOE for every element from both the short and free dances. Except for nine 9.75s, they received 10s for every PCS from both the short and free dances. They received level 4 on every element from both dances.

My lord that has to be unprecedented, even at a nationals!!!


Unprecedented marks for an unprecedented team!

They were flawless here, so I'm happy to see them rewarded for it. The changes to their free make it far stronger, really building to the end of the music. It was a very emotional skate (for me! oh, ok, and probably for them, teehee).

Although I worry about the fix being in for their chances at OGM, I do hope they can deliver the goods so at least they can feel that they did all they could to get the gold.

Also, KEEGAN MESSING! So enjoyed his skates this week and hope that he too can continue to build to Pyeongchang. There was a real "go for it" attitude for the men's free, with lots of quad attempts and many completions. Nice to see them not play it safe.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:06 am

MEN FREESKATE

1 - 181.26 84.56 96.70 9.71 9.68 9.43 9.82 9.71 0.00 Patrick CHAN 4t, 4t+2t, 2a+1lo+3s, 3z+3t, 2a, 3lo, 3f, 2a
2 - 174.77 93.15 82.62 8.11 7.89 8.46 8.39 8.46 1.00 Nam NGUYEN 4s, 3a+3t, 3a, 4t↓, 3f+2t+2lo, 3f+3t, 3lo, 3z!
3 - 173.60 88.40 86.20 8.46 8.50 8.71 8.57 8.86 1.00 Keegan MESSING 3z, 4t↓, 3a+2t+2lo, 4t+2t, 3s+3t, 3a, 3lo, 3fe
4 - 165.37 75.99 89.38 8.57 8.61 9.18 9.04 9.29 0.00 Elladj BALDE 3a+2t, 3a, 3lo, 2a+3t, 3z+1lo+combo+2s*, 3z, 3f!, 2a
5 - 163.70 86.68 78.02 7.86 7.54 8.04 7.89 7.68 1.00 Joseph PHAN 4t+2t, 3a, 4t↓, 3z+3t, 2a+1lo+3s, 3fe, 3z, 3lo
6 - 163.10 82.90 81.20 8.07 7.93 7.91 8.43 8.21 1.00 Kevin REYNOLDS 4lo<, 4t↓, 4s<+3t, 3a, 4t+3t+2lo, 3f+3lo<, 3z, 3s
7 - 155.05 71.69 84.36 8.50 8.43 8.18 8.61 8.46 1.00 Liam FIRUS 4t, 3a↓, 3f, 3a+2t, 2a+1lo+2s, 3z, 3lo, 3z+2t
8 - 154.95 74.29 81.66 8.29 7.36 8.18 8.21 8.29 1.00 Roman SADOVSKY 4s, 4t<↓, 3z+2t, 3lo, 3a, 2s, 3z+1lo+3s, 3fe
9 - 148.20 75.06 73.14 7.32 7.18 7.39 7.46 7.18 0.00 Stephen GOGOLEV 2z, 4s, 3a+3t, 1a<<, 3f+1lo+2s, 3z+1t, 3lo, 3a
10 - 147.95 67.03 81.92 8.32 7.86 8.11 8.21 8.46 1.00 Nidolas NADEAU 4t<, 3lo, 4t+2t, 3a↓, 3a+rep, 3f, 3s, 2a^2a
11 - 133.97 68.75 65.22 6.93 6.18 6.71 6.43 6.36 0.00 Conrad ORZEL 4s, 2t+2t, 3a-so-hd, 3lo, 4t, 1a+1lo+3s, 2z+3t, 3f
12 - 130.08 66.44 63.64 6.64 5.96 6.61 6.39 6.32 0.00 Bennet TOMAN 4t<<, 3a<, 3lo, 3a+3t, 3z+2t+2lo, 3z, 3s+2t, 2a-so-hd
13 - 121.68 59.12 62.56 6.46 6.21 6.11 6.36 6.14 0.00 Samuel ANGERS 3a<<, 3z+2t, 3s, 3t+2t+2lo, 3z, 3f, 2a+3t, 3lo
14 - 120.19 57.54 63.66 6.54 6.36 6.41 6.54 6.18 1.00 Eric LIU 2a, 3z↓, 3fe, 3lo, 2a, 3s+2t+2lo, 3z+2t, 3t
15 - 117.43 55.43 62.00 6.25 6.00 6.29 6.32 6.14 0.00 Jeremie CREVAUX 3lo+2t+1lo<<, 3f+2t, 3z, 2a+3t-so, 2f, 3lo, 3s, 2a
16 - 117.31 50.03 68.28 6.71 6.61 6.75 7.00 7.07 1.00 Olivier BERGERON 3a<<↓, 3f, 1z, 3f+2t, 2a+1lo+3s, 1lo, 3t+2t, 2a
17 - 108.05 44.75 65.30 6.54 6.29 6.46 6.68 6.68 2.00 Dustin SHERRIFF-CLAYTON 3s, 3z↓, 3fe↓, 3t^2a, 1z, 2s+2t+1lo, 2a, 2s
18 - 97.57 45.55 58.02 6.36 5.79 5.29 6.07 5.50 6.00 Edrian Paul CELESTINO 3z+1lo+3s, 3a<<↓, 3f!<↓, 3z, 2a+3t<↓, 3lo<<↓, 3s, 1a



FINAL STANDINGS MEN

1 - Patrick CHAN 272.24 1 1
2 - Keegan MESSING 259.25 3 3
3 - Nam NGUYEN 258.16 5 2
4 - Elladj BALDE 250.28 4 4
5 - Kevin REYNOLDS 249.30 2 6
6 - Joseph PHAN 241.71 8 5
7 - Roman SADOVSKY 233.67 7 8
8 - Liam FIRUS 232.49 9 7
9 - Nidolas NADEAU 227.51 6 10
10 - Stephen GOGOLEV 220.81 11 9
11 - Conrad ORZEL 207.66 10 11
12 - Bennet TOMAN 198.91 13 12
13 - Samuel ANGERS 191.64 12 13
14 - Eric LIU 185.01 14 14
15 - Olivier BERGERON 180.92 15 16
16 - Jeremie CREVAUX 177.75 16 15
17 - Dustin SHERRIFF-CLAYTON 166.00 17 17
18 - Edrian Paul CELESTINO 153.71 18 18
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby bumphystars » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:13 am

Wow,11 of the 18 competitors attempted a quad, with most completing at least one.

Just when I was fretting about the state of men's skating in Canada!

(As usual, chuckie, thanks for posting these details!)
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:53 am

Does anyone know when the announcements will be made about the Olympic, World, 4CC and JW teams?
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Jonas » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:31 am

LADIES
Gabby Daleman is not my favorite skater stylistically, but she's one unapologetic competitor. She's hinted many times not so subtlely that she wants to beat Kaetlyn Osmond head to head and she did just that, and IMO, more handily than the scores indicate.

Three falls over two programs for Kaetlyn Osmond and I have to say I'm not even surprised by it at all. That's a pretty consistent FS for her, but certainly not one that'll challenge Medvedeva for the gold. Maybe Bradie Tennell does have that outside chance at that bronze medal!!
:twisted:

PAIRS
My favorite event here. I watched all 7 pairs. From what I understand the bottom 3 pairs have all only been teams for just 2 years or less, so it was impressive for me to see how far they've come along in their pairness.

As for the battle for the Olympic season: my gut told me after Skate Canada that Iliushechkina & Moscovitch would be the team staying home. They have a very well choreographed program, but so do Moore-Towers & Marinaro and Seguin & Bilodeau. It just seemed that I&M had the most issues w/their big ticket elements and it proved to be their undoing tonight. I at least hoped it would be a close dog fight to the end, but it really wasn't all that close.

MEN
THA-RILLED for Keegan Messing!!! I thought that silly 3flip would cost him big, I'm glad he eeked it out. Honestly, I think Keegan's style is way underappreciated by the judges. As much as I do get excited about guys reeling off quads, it isn't JUST about the quads. Keegan can land quad toes, BTW, but his footwork sequence, IMO, should be rewarded and recognized MORE. Furthermore, I think the ISU can SHOULD use Keegan's program here as a test case for how PCS should be analyzed. The footwork sequence may not have been a Level 4 for the technical side, but Keegan maintains character throughout the sequence and is a perfect fit for, WITH, and TO the music. He may not be trying quad Lutzes or quad flips, but I'd watch his performance any day over some of they guys who land those jumps, but skate with hardly an ounce of charisma.

I was also very happy to see Eladj Balde skate unapologetically for himself, the Canadian fans, and for the sheer love of skating. Again, nowhere near today's level of tehcnical firepower, but where he focused on entertaining the crowd w/original (albeit hardly the most difficult) and skating with his full soul, Eladj was victorious! I hope he gets assigned to Four Continents for one last competitive hurrah along w/Ross Miner and Max Aaron. They can all bro out afterwards!

Your thoughts...
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby tennisfan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:16 am

chuckiem wrote:Does anyone know when the announcements will be made about the Olympic, World, 4CC and JW teams?

I believe it's this afternoon - 2PM EST - 11AM PST.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadian-olympic ... -1.4486476
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby bumphystars » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:56 pm

Jonas wrote:THA-RILLED for Keegan Messing!!! I thought that silly 3flip would cost him big, I'm glad he eeked it out. Honestly, I think Keegan's style is way underappreciated by the judges. As much as I do get excited about guys reeling off quads, it isn't JUST about the quads. Keegan can land quad toes, BTW, but his footwork sequence, IMO, should be rewarded and recognized MORE. Furthermore, I think the ISU can SHOULD use Keegan's program here as a test case for how PCS should be analyzed. The footwork sequence may not have been a Level 4 for the technical side, but Keegan maintains character throughout the sequence and is a perfect fit for, WITH, and TO the music. He may not be trying quad Lutzes or quad flips, but I'd watch his performance any day over some of they guys who land those jumps, but skate with hardly an ounce of charisma.

Your thoughts...


So agree with you here, and let's not forget about his spins, which are fast, well-centred, and, yep, in keeping with the overall tone of the program.

And, can we also say he is one classy act, hugging Balde as he was coming off the ice, just as he was about to compete himself.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Maleeva » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:52 pm

Does Canada use nationals as a pure Olympic trials or does a selection committee pick the Olympic/Worlds team based on a criteria from the skaters recent results and body of work?
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Virginia » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Okay, I went back and hunted for the nugget I remembered about Daleman learning a quad toe and I'm pleased to report that I didn't imagine it! It was from Skate America, not the GPF.

It's on this video, around the 2:00 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Knru67f59E Tara Lipinski reports that Gabi told her that she came home from Cup of China and started working on a quad toe with the jump harness in her rink. A day or two later she tried the jump without the harness and she was hitting it cleanly! She told Lipinski she planned to unveil it at Canadian Nationals and use it to beat Osmond.

Well, I guess this strep throat put paid to that idea, and she turned out not to need it to whip Osmond. She beat her handily in Vancouver. But I can see why, with that huge, gorgeous triple toe-triple toe, she felt confident to try a quad.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Nahanni » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Canadian Olympic Team has been selected and includes all the medalists other than 3rd place man as Canada only qualified
two men for Olympics. Keegan Messing s going to Olympics! So happy for him. He has duel US-Can citizenship by the way.
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Dragonlady » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 pm

Gabby could not hav skated better. That skate I’m pretty sure would put her on the podium at the Olympics. Can she do it again?
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Virginia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:20 am

I sure hope so, Dragonlady!
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Re: 2018 CANADIAN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Winnipeg » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:17 pm

Ditto, I think both Canadian ladies could medal at the Olys if they skate clean
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