2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Maleeva » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:46 pm

The short dance results were quite interesting. I’m loving the battle of who gets the most 10s between Pap-Ciz and Virtue-Moir. Pap-Cis won today, 12 10s to 11 for V&M. They are so evenly matched who knows who will win on Saturday.

I was really looking foward to seeing where this ISU panel would rank all three US teams competing at the same event. I have to say Hub-Don must be bitterly disappointed being over 3 points behind the Shibs. I love the Shibs but I’m just not seeing a three point difference. The tech panel clearly went with the Shibs, as it is the base value where most of the Shibs lead came from in this program. The GOE and PCS were virtually even. Will be interesting to see if the gap narrows in the free dance.

I don’t have Olympic channel so I’m watching on youtube. I’m really enjoying the commentary by the British Eurosport announcers. How they articulate Hub-Don’s performance, helps me understand even more why I prefer them over the Shibs, at least for this season. Here is the link with that commentary:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xOOpa28tO0Q
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Virginia » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:21 pm

I was really excited when Papadakis and Cizeron won the short dance.

Not that I don't like Virtue and Moir -- I do, very much -- but something about Gabrielle and Guillaume's skating captivates me. I especially love their Moonlight Sonata -- it's so ethereal it doesn't even feel like a competitive program!

I can't see any technical superiority separating the top dance teams (Shibs, V&M, P&C), so to me it's all subjective. And my personal preferences this season are the French first, followed by the Shibs, then V&M.

(That's not to say that I don't recognize that there are different levels of technical expertise; just that I'm not discerning enough to be able to spot whatever the judges are looking for most of the time. I suspect most fans are the same.)
Virginia
 
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby sms29s66 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Since the Shibs don't stand a chance, I'm rooting for P/C. V/M strike me as feeling too entitled. Same for H/D with very little justification in their case.
sms29s66
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Virginia » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:29 pm

Reflection (spoiler alert below):

Shoma Una got a one-point deduction from his short program for a time violation.

Then Nathan Chen beat Shoma Una by exactly half a point.

If not for that time violation, Shoma would be going to the Olympics as the Grand Prix champion. Instead, Nathan has the title.

WOW.
Virginia
 
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby chuckiem » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:42 pm

Shoma's coach should have noticed that his SP was too close to the time limit.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby chuckiem » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:04 am

RESULTS - MEN

SHORT PROGRAM

1 Nathan CHEN USA 103.32 58.14 45.18 9.00 8.79 9.11 9.07 9.21 0.00 6 4z+3t, 4f, 3a
2 Shoma UNO JPN 101.51 57.04 46.47 9.36 9.11 9.32 9.32 9.36 2.00 5 4f, 4t+3t, 3a↓, time
3 Mikhail KOLYADA RUS 99.22 55.51 44.71 9.07 8.75 8.89 9.00 9.00 1.00 4 4z↓, 4t+3t, 3a
4 Jason BROWN USA 89.02 44.30 44.72 8.93 8.82 8.93 8.93 9.11 0.00 1 3a, 3f+3t, 3z
5 Sergei VORONOV RUS 87.77 45.16 42.61 8.54 8.29 8.64 8.46 8.68 0.00 3 4t+3t, 3z, 3a
6 Adam RIPPON USA 86.19 42.59 43.60 8.68 8.46 8.82 8.75 8.89 0.00 2 3f+3t, 3a, 3z<

FREE SKATE

1 Shoma UNO JPN 184.50 94.14 91.36 9.36 8.96 9.00 9.18 9.18 1.00 6 4lo<↓, 4s, 3a, 4f, 4t-df, 4t<<+rep, 3a+1lo+3f, 3s
2 Nathan CHEN USA 183.19 95.75 88.44 8.96 8.61 8.86 8.93 8.86 1.00 4 4z+3t, 4f-fwd, 2s, 4z<, 45+1lo+2s, 4t<<↓, 3a+2t, 3z
3 Mikhail KOLYADA RUS 182.78 95.58 89.20 9.07 8.75 8.75 8.96 9.07 2.00 5 4z↓, 4s↓, 3a-so, 4t+3t, 3a+2t, 3z+1lo+3s, 1lo, 3z
4 Sergei VORONOV RUS 178.82 91.90 86.92 8.68 8.39 9.00 8.57 8.82 0.00 2 4t+3t, 3a, 4t, 3a+2t+2lo, 3z, 3s+2t, 3lo, 2a
5 Adam RIPPON USA 168.14 81.78 87.36 8.71 8.43 8.79 8.86 8.89 1.00 1 4z<<↓, 3f+3lo, 2a, 3a+2t+2lo, 3a, 3f<+3t<, 3s, 3z
6 Jason BROWN USA 164.79 75.71 90.08 9.00 8.93 8.89 9.11 9.11 1.00 3 3a, 3a<↓+rep, 3f, 2a+3t, 3z+2t, 3lo, 3z+1lo+2s, 2a

FINAL

1 - Nathan CHEN USA 286.51 1 2
2 - Shoma UNO JPN 286.01 2 1
3 - Mikhail KOLYADA RUS 282.00 3 3
4 - Sergei VORONOV RUS 266.59 5 4
5 - Adam RIPPON USA 254.33 6 5
6 - Jason BROWN USA 253.81 4 6


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESULTS - PAIRS

SHORT PROGRAM

1 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Bruno MASSOT GER 79.43 42.53 36.90 9.11 9.07 9.32 9.29 9.32 0.00 4
2 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 78.83 42.24 36.59 9.25 8.96 9.21 9.14 9.18 0.00 5
3 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 75.82 39.64 37.18 9.39 9.32 9.07 9.36 9.32 1.00 6
4 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 73.15 39.20 34.95 8.93 8.61 8.54 8.82 8.79 1.00 2
5 Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD CAN 72.18 37.00 35.18 8.86 8.61 8.71 8.93 8.86 0.00 3
6 Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG CHN 70.15 37.60 33.55 8.39 8.29 8.32 8.61 8.32 1.00 1

FREE SKATE

1 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Bruno MASSOT GER 157.25 80.23 77.02 9.46 9.54 9.82 9.64 9.68 0.00 6
2 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 155.07 79.24 75.83 9.43 9.32 9.57 9.54 9.54 0.00 4
3 Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD CAN 138.65 69.02 70.63 8.89 8.71 8.86 8.86 8.82 1.00 3
4 Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG CHN 136.99 69.06 67.93 8.54 8.39 8.50 8.57 8.46 0.00 1
5 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 136.11 66.35 70.76 9.00 8.75 8.61 9.00 8.86 1.00 2
6 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 129.90 58.07 71.83 9.18 8.93 8.71 9.07 9.00 0.00 5


FINAL

1 - Aliona SAVCHENKO / Bruno MASSOT GER 236.68 1 1
2 - Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 230.89 3 2
3 - Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD CAN 210.83 4 3
4 - Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 209.26 5 5
5 - Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 208.73 2 6
6 - Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG CHN 207.14 6 4

====================================================================

RESULTS - ICE DANCE


SHORT DANCE

1 Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERONE FRA 82.07 42.93 39.14 9.71 9.64 9.96 9.75 9.86 0.00 6
2 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 81.53 42.56 38.97 9.68 9.57 9.89 9.75 9.82 0.00 5
3 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA 78.09 40.85 37.24 9.36 9.14 9.32 9.36 9.36 0.00 4
4 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA 74.81 38.22 36.59 9.18 8.96 9.29 9.14 9.18 0.00 2
5 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES USA 74.36 38.08 36.28 8.96 8.93 9.18 9.18 9.11 0.00 3
6 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA 74.24 37.87 36.37 9.00 8.82 9.21 9.18 9.25 0.00 1


FREE DANCE

1 Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERONE FRA 120.09 60.85 59.24 9.79 9.68 9.96 9.93 10.00 0.00 6
2 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 118.33 59.66 58.67 9.64 9.57 9.93 9.79 9.96 0.00 5
3 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES USA 112.79 57.25 55.54 9.18 9.00 9.39 9.39 9.32 0.00 3
4 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA 112.59 57.42 55.17 9.29 8.93 9.32 9.18 9.25 0.00 2
5 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA 110.99 56.01 54.98 9.00 9.00 9.32 9.18 9.32 0.00 1
6 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA 109.91 54.15 55.76 9.36 9.18 9.21 9.36 9.36 0.00 4


FINAL

1 - Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERONE FRA 202.16 1 1
2 - Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 199.86 2 2
3 - Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA 188.00 3 6
4 - Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA 187.40 4 4
5 - Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES USA 187.15 5 3
6 - Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA 185.23 6 5

=====================================================================

RESULTS - LADIES

SHORT PROGRAM

1 Kaetlyn OSMOND CAN 77.02 40.62 36.40 9.00 8.82 9.32 9.14 9.21 0.00 5 3f+3t, 3z!, 2a
2 Alina ZAGITOVA RUS 76.27 41.21 35.06 8.71 8.71 8.79 8.82 8.79 0.00 6 3z+3lo, 3f-fwd, 2a
3 Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 74.61 39.39 35.22 8.71 8.64 8.89 8.86 8.93 0.00 1 3z+3t, 3lo, 2a
4 Maria SOTSKOVA RUS 74.00 40.11 33.89 8.57 8.25 8.54 8.46 8.54 0.00 3 3z+3t, 3f, 2a
5 Wakaba HIGUCHI JPN 73.26 39.08 34.18 8.57 8.29 8.71 8.54 8.61 0.00 2 2a, 3z+3t, 3f!
6 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 72.82 35.36 37.46 9.25 9.21 9.29 9.54 9.54 0.00 4 3t+2t, 3lo, 2a



FREE SKATE

1 Alina ZAGITOVA RUS 147.03 76.61 70.42 8.79 8.61 8.96 8.79 8.86 0.00 5 3z+3lo, 2a+3t, 3f+2t+2lo, 3z-so, 3s, 3f, 2a
2 Maria SOTSKOVA RUS 142.28 73.59 68.69 8.57 8.36 8.75 8.57 8.68 0.00 2 3z+3t, 3f, 3lo-fwd, 3f+1lo+3s, 3z, 2a+2t, 2a
3 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 141.83 66.87 74.96 9.46 9.11 9.39 9.39 9.50 0.00 1 3f+2t, 3f, 3lo, 3t, 2a^2s, 2a, 3s+2t,
4 Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 138.88 67.00 71.88 9.00 8.79 8.93 9.07 9.14 0.00 6 3lo, 3z<+3t<, 3f<, 3z+2t+2lo, 2a+3t, 3s, 2a
5 Kaetlyn OSMOND CAN 138.12 66.50 72.62 9.14 8.79 9.07 9.18 9.21 1.00 4 3f+3t, 2a+3t, 3z!, 2lo, 3f, 3s<↓, 2a+2t+2t
6 Wakaba HIGUCHI JPN 128.85 62.67 66.18 8.50 8.00 8.18 8.36 8.32 0.00 3 2a, 3z+3t, 2s, 2z, 3lo, 2a+3t, 3f!+2t+2lo



FINAL

1 - Alina ZAGITOVA RUS 223.30 2 1
2 - Maria SOTSKOVA RUS 216.28 4 2
3 - Kaetlyn OSMOND CAN 215.14 1 5
4 - Carolina KOSTNER ITA 214.65 6 3
5 - Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 213.49 3 4
6 - Wakaba HIGUCHI JPN 202.11 5 6

=====================================================================
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Maleeva » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:51 pm

Pairs

Sav/Mas were just brilliant! Personal best total and free scores here for them. A well deserved close win here over Sui/Han. Quite the battle is brewing between those two teams for Olympic gold, with Tar/Mor still in the picture if they skate clean and the top two teams have errors.

Ladies

I think Miyahara was in shock after her score and not making the podium. Little did she know she was undone again by her achilles heal, under-rotations. I admire Zagitiva’s jumping prowess and she possesses natural artistic abilities, but for me, her basic skating does not yet demonstrate deep edges or knee action of an elite SR lady. The free program was once again Osmond’s nemesis. She really struggled with her edge jumps in this program and appeared to lose some steam for the second half of the program. I do enjoy watching Sotskova but she just does not do it for me musically.

Dance

Wow, all of those 10s for V&M and Pap/Ciz. Both teams skated at the highest level with the exact same base levels. The judges had a tough choice and went for the French team. This was V&M’s first loss since they returned from their two year hiatus.

OK, I have been Chock/Bates biggest critic this season because I do not care for their free dance too much. But wow, that was by far the best they have ever skated it. I’m not sure but I think they may have made some music edits to their free dance that make it better. I’ll have to go back to other events to see if that is true or just my imagination due to how well they skated here.

My heart just ached that Hub/Don were only .6 away from the podium. I just don’t think they are receiving the GOEs they deserve for their speed and amazingly deep edges. Hopefully they can take some solace that they did receive the highest base value scores (levels) in the free dance, from this tech panel.

The Shibs just looked off tonight. The emotion was not there and Alex made a mess of their twizzles. I guess I can see how they still got level 4 on the twizzles (since they did the min number of rotations and features) but Alex did not finish his rotations in two of the twizzle sequences. How they still received positive grades of execution for that element is beyond me.

So, the three US teams ended up less than one point apart here in the final standings. That sets San Jose up as a battle royale to see which of these three teams will go to Pyeongchang as US national Champion!

As a side note, I am loving the new TV graphic that shows the name of each element, its level and GOE.
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Jonas » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:57 pm

MEN'S FREE:
Nathan Chen held on to this win on the strength of his high base value. However, it's not a performance that I would hope to see win an Olympic medal. Just sloppy throughout. He's made great strides in the "artistic" direction he's going, but when the quads went kaput, Nathan let the performance go. Compare that to Adam and Jason, who still performed even the mistakes were happening. I woulda had Nathan a lot lower than his teammates in the PE and IN components.

Missed opportunity for Kolyada, IMO. Unbeknownst to him or not, Kolyada had a golden opportunity to cement himself as an Olympic medal contender had he skated cleaner and possibly won the event. It was definitely there.

PAIRS FREE
What sets both Sui & Han and Savchenko & Massot are their performance abilities that are just simply above the rest. They have an ability to draw me in that the other teams don't quite have. The Germans had the better FS here, IMO, and were better over the week, so a well deserved win! These two teams plus James & Cipres would be my fantasy podium in Pyeongchang.

LADIES FREE
Kostner had her ethereal moments, but the pops were enough for me to question the validity of a 140+ for that FS. I wouldn't have given Sotskova 140+ for that FS neither, but I did feel it was right to have her beat Kostner overall.

Two costly pops for Wakaba Higuchi. Not only did it seal her last place finish here, but I'm not sure if she still has a significant advantage, if even any at all, going into Japanese Nationals.

Like Kolyada among the men, this was a missed golden opportunity for Osmond. Yeah, she medaled, but she has yet to nail a clean, 7-triple FS, which she'll need to land on the podium in Pyeongchang, much less battle for the Olympic title. This inability resulted in the second instance in as many international events of Osmond finishing behind both Zagitova and Sotskova. What happens when Medvedeva is back in the picture -- Olympic Athlete from Russia sweep in Pyeongchang??

Your thoughts...
Jonas
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:27 pm
Location: The Jersey Shore

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby chuckiem » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:21 pm

A Russian sweep in Korea is definitely a possibility, because Medvedeva, Zagitova and Sotskova are all such consistent skaters, particularly in the freeskate. Osmond is a powerful, consistent SP skater and can build up a lead against all but Medvedeva, but her inability to deliver a clean 7-triple FS against those 3 ladies could cost her a spot on the podium.

Kaetlyn starts off her FS with two massive combinations followed by two huge triples, but they are clearly effortful, and she doesn't seem to have the stamina left to complete the remainder of her program with the same degree of strength, and that is why the pops and falls happen.

I was impressed with Sotskova's growth over the season, and I agree with others that I could do without the hands over the head. What I did realize during the the FS was that much of what she does---and even the music and costume she chose for the FS--is because she is such a Kostner fan. Carolina skated to Debussy's Afternoon of a Faun in neutral tones; Maria skated to Debussy's Claire de Lune in neutral gray. Carolina uses her arms very artistically in her FS; Maria uses her arms, not nearly as artistically, in both her programs. Maria is young and hasn't developed her own style as yet, but like Carolina, she is tall and long-limbed and has a natural grace of her own. At some point she will find her own niche and not try to be another Kostner.

I'm not sure what happened with Higuchi, but it may have been a momentary lack of concentration that caused her to double the salchow---but instead of letting go of the mistake, she let it disrupt the rest of her program, and the result was disaster. She now goes into Nationals having finished behind Miyahara, and that could open the door to other contenders (Mihara, Sakamoto) who could potentially outskate Higuchi at Nationals.

Satoko won at SA thanks to the benevolence of the tech panel there, who chose to overlook some fairly obvious URs. But the GPF Ladies tech panel (TC Ottemann-NED; TS Bianconi-ITA; ATS Rossoukhi-Schneider-AUT) wasn't so lenient. Even to my eyes, the first 3z+3t combo was completely UR as was the 3f right after it. Her jumps got better as she got into the program, but thee loss of points was massive. As much as the Japanese love their lady stars, they are not lenient with technical errors, and their tech panels will not go easy on the ladies at Nationals. So Satoko is not necessarily a shoo-in for an Olympic berth based on her performance at the GPF. Then there is her physical condition: after she fractured her hip, she was diagnosed with osteopenia (fragile bones) due to poor diet and nutrition. She needs to have followup bone screens to ensure the osteopenia is gradually improving because otherwise she could be prone to more serious even career-ending fractures.

Kostner got a wakeup call at this competition that a half-way effort won't do. She did only 3t+2t in the SP and in the FS, left out the 3t+3t combo and did only a 2s at the end of her 3 jump combo. If she hadn't made ONE of those three errors, she would have made the podium at the GPF---as it was, she finished less than half a point behind Osmond.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Jonas » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Somebody please double check my stats, but just thought I'd share:

Winners of the men's event at the Grand Prix Final during four of the last five Olympic seasons:

Dec. '97 -- Ilia Kulik
Dec. '01 -- Alexei Yagudin
Dec. '09 -- Evan Lysacek
Dec. '13 -- Yuzuru Hanyu

Your thoughts...
Jonas
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:27 pm
Location: The Jersey Shore

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby rosima » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:34 am

Can somebody explain why Tarazova/Morozov got a 0.00 on their pair spin? I looked at it over and over again and can’t find why.
rosima
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:06 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby chuckiem » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:37 pm

rosima wrote:Can somebody explain why Tarazova/Morozov got a 0.00 on their pair spin? I looked at it over and over again and can’t find why.


They may not have done the required number of revolutions. Nearly everything seemed a bit off throughout their FS---it was a disappointing effort.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby tennisfan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:42 am

rosima wrote:Can somebody explain why Tarazova/Morozov got a 0.00 on their pair spin? I looked at it over and over again and can’t find why.

I'm not sure why they got no score on that element, though chuckiem's reason is probably the most likely explanation.

Here is that spin from the Grand Prix Final:
https://youtu.be/4KwCHNCjGkk?t=296

and here is it from France where it was given level 4:
https://youtu.be/KTLOQ4Vp8zw?t=282

Maybe someone will spot the error.
tennisfan
 
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:52 pm

Re: 2017 GRAND PRIX FINAL

Postby Maleeva » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:36 am

Jonas wrote:Somebody please double check my stats, but just thought I'd share:

Winners of the men's event at the Grand Prix Final during four of the last five Olympic seasons:

Dec. '97 -- Ilia Kulik
Dec. '01 -- Alexei Yagudin
Dec. '09 -- Evan Lysacek
Dec. '13 -- Yuzuru Hanyu

Your thoughts...


Well, I did not check your stats, but it looks like you are saying there is a trend that the GP final winner often wins the OGM. So Nathan Chen...hmm???
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville


Return to Figure Skating

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 8 guests