Olympics Wide Open

Olympics Wide Open

Postby canskate79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 pm

Hi

With the Russian ban, ladies & pairs is now wide open. No Russian men or dance teams were a real threat.

I’m liking Kaetlyn’s chances to medal much better.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby chuckiem » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:13 pm

No figureskaters are among those charged with doping, so according to the IOC, they will be allowed to compete. Putin has already said Russian athletes will be permitted to compete at the Games under the IOC-prescribed conditions.

So expressions of schadenfreud are a bit premature...
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Dragonlady » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:55 am

This Canadian is happy that the Russian skaters will be there.

As for the guy who said that Ladies and Paits are now wide open has clearly forgotten about the Japanese Ladies and the Chinese Pairs.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby siteadmin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:42 am

canskate79, I think we can do without blanket statements such as that. Fact is more than a few countries......including Canada & the USA....... have had drug issues in one sport or another at various times.

Thank you.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:48 pm

chuckiem wrote:No figureskaters are among those charged with doping, so according to the IOC, they will be allowed to compete. Putin has already said Russian athletes will be permitted to compete at the Games under the IOC-prescribed conditions.


I am worried for Ekaterina Bobrova. She had a doping case because of Meldonium. She stopped taking this medicine in October or November of 2015, but the traces of it were found after January-2016. She had to miss Worlds 2016. Later she was justified as WADA confirmed that it make take several months to completely remove Meldonium from the body.
I think she still has chances to be allowed to go to the Olympics.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:18 am

There are still many questions how the Russian team participation's (if the athletes decide to go) is organized without the Russian Olympic Commitee.
IOC told that it would cover the expenses for the athletes.
Still a lot is not clear. For example, if Russia is not allowed to be represented as country, does that mean that there will be no Russian judges in Figure Skating? But if there is no judge from Russia in any competition (team, signles, pairs, dance) that will not be fair.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby tennisfan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:21 am

Ellen wrote:
chuckiem wrote:No figureskaters are among those charged with doping, so according to the IOC, they will be allowed to compete. Putin has already said Russian athletes will be permitted to compete at the Games under the IOC-prescribed conditions.


I am worried for Ekaterina Bobrova. She had a doping case because of Meldonium. She stopped taking this medicine in October or November of 2015, but the traces of it were found after January-2016. She had to miss Worlds 2016. Later she was justified as WADA confirmed that it make take several months to completely remove Meldonium from the body.
I think she still has chances to be allowed to go to the Olympics.

My understanding of WADA's decision regarding meldonium is that it was found that the athletes who tested positive before Mar 1. 2016 and who had a very low level - less than one microgram - were cleared of doping charges. I believe Bobrova will be allowed compete, if she chooses to do so.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby chuckiem » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pm

Ellen wrote:There are still many questions how the Russian team participation's (if the athletes decide to go) is organized without the Russian Olympic Commitee.
IOC told that it would cover the expenses for the athletes.
Still a lot is not clear. For example, if Russia is not allowed to be represented as country, does that mean that there will be no Russian judges in Figure Skating? But if there is no judge from Russia in any competition (team, signles, pairs, dance) that will not be fair.


Judging panels are selected by the ISU, not the IOC. And there's never been a problem with judges / officials doping (although cheating has occasionally been a problem). So I don't see why the IOC would have concerns about Russian judges.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:09 am

IOC has published today the list of Russian athletes, who are admitted to the games in Korea.
The list does not include all the participants of Sochi- 2014.
That means the top leading athletes from skiing, beatlon, feagure skating, short-track, speed skating, etc. cannot go to Korea.
These sportsmen are not mentioned in any doping reports of McLaren and not mentioned by any commissions of Oswald, etc. and they never ever gave positive doping tests.

I am still not 100% sure if skaters Bobrova-Soloviev and Stolbova-Klimov are not allowed for Korea. In the press I read the names of the banned athletes from other sports, no information about these figure-skaters yet.

I now firmly convinced that unless the IOC allows all clean athletes including those who were in Sochi go to Korea, Russia must refuse to participate and boykott the Games.
I clearly remember how the IOC president assured that the clean athletes will be able to participate at the Olympics. Now it turns out that the IOC president lied?
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:12 pm

Those who started this topic about the Olympics wide open - you may rejoice.

More news came about the Russian participation in Pyongchang.
Figure skaters Ksenia Stolbova /Fedor Klimov and Aleksandra Stepanova/Ivan Bukin have been refused by the IOC to participate in the 2018 Olympic games.

Here is the Google translate for the statement of the Russian FS Federation:
"This groundless and absurd decision once again demonstrates the inconsistency of the IOC's statements denying the external influence on its decisions, as well as violates all the fundamental norms set forth in the Olympic Charter, in particular rejection of discrimination, respect for the principles of solidarity and fair play. The Federation of figure skating in Russia is deeply outraged by the groundless decision of the IOC, reminiscent of a provocation aimed at forcing Russian athletes to abandon participation in the Games by any means. We intend to immediately begin the struggle to restore a fair attitude towards Russian skaters and defend the honor and dignity of our athletes in all possible ways, "the statement of the RFSF says.

I wonder why Stepanova-Bukin, they were not in Sochi....
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Dragonlady » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:52 pm

Ellen, this isn’t to exclude athletes with bad results from Sochi. This is to exclude Russian athletes with a history of questionable drug results. Stoblova is not a surprise. Bukin is.

You believe this is some sort of punishment on the athletes and it’s so unfair. It’s been proven that the Russian government was behind a systemic program to use performance enhancing drugs and to use technology and cheated tests to skirt the rules prohibiting their use. This is unfair to every athlete who competed against these athletes for years. In many cases, athletes were forced to take the drugs against their wills. They wanted to compete clean and weren’t allowed to do so.

This isn’t the first time there’s been a problem with Russian Federations. The USSR was caught cheating in the 80’s and banned from the ISU for a year. There were the block judging scandals of the 90’s at both the 1994 and 1998 Olympics, culminating in the cheating scandal in the s pairs in Sakt Lake City, all lead by Piseev and the Russian federation.

Your governments under both the Soviets and Putin, want medals for propaganda purposes. You should be appalled on behalf of your athletes that they’re being treated so badly by your government, instead of outraged that the rest of the world doesn’t want to compete against athletes using PED’s.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby bumphystars » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:30 pm

Dragonlady, I could not have said it better myself.

I watched the documentary Icarus on the weekend and came away absolutely incensed at the level of deceit in which the Russians have engaged. I highly recommend it as required viewing for everyone who cares about the integrity of not just skating, but international sport in general. And, as Dick Pound said just this morning, he is aghast with the IOC for not holding Russia to any sort of accountability for that deceit, thereby enabling it to continue.

I feel badly for any clean athletes that may be impacted, but on the other hand I feel much worse for the clean athletes from other countries who lost their Olympic dreams because the other guys cheated.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Winnipeg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:58 pm

It is very unfortunate but if there are no consequences to those found cheating then what is the point of having rules.

I agree with commentators about considering the fairness from the perspective of clean athletes who have to compete against those on PED.

I never could understand blaming the athletes for bad situations they have no control over. The most shocking thing to me re the SLC 2002 cheating judge et al was that people starting accusing the athletes of complaining! Weird.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Virginia » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:05 pm

Dragonlady, that was very eloquently put.

Cheating is wrong, and individual athletes who cheat deserve to be stripped of their medals and placements and banned from competition.

State-sponsored cheating, however, operates a whole different level, and there's a logic to collective punishment. If you want to get the Russian government to think twice about this kind of behavior, a mass ban is probably the most effective tool. The IOC has stopped short of that, but I believe that they have good reasons for the steps they have taken and the athletes that they have chosen to ban.

Russia isn't the first country to be guilty of state-sponsored doping and deceit; the lengths to which the East Germans went are absolutely horrific. They forced athletes to take steroids and other drugs that resulted in long-term health problems, infertility, and even early death. In such cases, one must pity the athletes, not blame them. They are victims of government conspiracy to win at all costs.

I think many decades will pass before the IOC ever awards another Olympic Games to Russia. It was having the Games (and the doping control center) on Russian soil that allowed this conspiracy to take place.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:37 pm

Dear DragonLady and others, do not bother placing the anti-russian propaganda here. State-sponsored doping, conspiracy, bad treating of sportsmen and other horrific things that are happening in Russia... ha-ha-ha
I read same in your Western media, and I know you all beleive in it.
Your media doesn't write who are behind the anti-Russian propaganda and who forces the IOC to carry out such decisions.

When Ekaterina Bobrova was tested positive on Meldoniy, she was notified, disqualified and had to miss the Worlds.

If Ksenia Stolbova or Ivan Bukin had any doping cases then why they or the RFSF were not notified of that? Why they were not removed from the competitions then, disqualified? That would be the correct fight against doping.

On the contrary - banning the Flag, the Anthem, removing the team leaders from the Olympics without any explanations - THAT"S NOT FIGHT AGAINST DOPING. That's the fight against RUSSIA as the strong sporting country and the potential medal winner.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby JimSlate71 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:16 am

Ellen wrote:Dear DragonLady and others, do not bother placing the anti-russian propaganda here. State-sponsored doping, conspiracy, bad treating of sportsmen and other horrific things that are happening in Russia... ha-ha-ha
I read same in your Western media, and I know you all beleive in it.
Your media doesn't write who are behind the anti-Russian propaganda and who forces the IOC to carry out such decisions.

When Ekaterina Bobrova was tested positive on Meldoniy, she was notified, disqualified and had to miss the Worlds.

If Ksenia Stolbova or Ivan Bukin had any doping cases then why they or the RFSF were not notified of that? Why they were not removed from the competitions then, disqualified? That would be the correct fight against doping.

On the contrary - banning the Flag, the Anthem, removing the team leaders from the Olympics without any explanations - THAT"S NOT FIGHT AGAINST DOPING. That's the fight against RUSSIA as the strong sporting country and the potential medal winner.


Sorry, Ellen - you have to look at the FACTS. It is not some Western conspiracy against Russia. It was CHEATING at Sochi that put the Russian athletes under the microscope. Don't forget that it was a Russian, Grigory Rodchenkov, one of the state-sponsored cheaters in Sochi, who gave the details about the shameful cheating in 2014. You can't spin this. You can only be mad at the state-sponsored cheaters who put the Russian athletes in this position. I feel bad for the wonderful, honest athletes like Evgenia Medvedeva. Although she will compete, she won't be representing her country or hear her anthem while on the podium. That's not her fault, certainly. But it's not "the West". It's the Russian government agencies who decided to cheat. Every action has its consequences, and now the price must be paid. Cheaters never win.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 am

Okay. All athletes whose names Rodchenkov gave (who, from his words, were involved in some cheating) were not included in the list of the Korea participants from Russia.
Even Rodchenkov, McLaren and all others did not mention anything bad about those athletes who unexpectedly have not received the invites by the IOC. However some time ago the IOC assured that all clean athletes would have the right to compete at the Olympics. Those atletes competed successfully during the past several seasons and were included in the Olympic team.
The IOC has the right to invite/not invite someone to the games. But the athlete HAS THE RIGHT to be informed about the grounds for not-inviting. The IOC has to follow the rule.
If after being investigated under the microscope Ivan Bukin (take him as example) was suspected in something bad by Valérie Fourneyron, then she MUST present the explanations. Until now no explanation was given. Same thing for the athletes from other sports. From the point of view of the people on this forum that's normal of course, as long it doesn't concern their own athletes.


Somebody here watched the Icar documentary about the Russian doping. That film was even nominated for Oscar (probably as the masterpiece of cinematography). Did anybody here watch similar documentary by Icar about the doping in the British (the UK) sports ? I am sure that most of you are not aware that such documentary exists. You are so brainwashed by your propaganda press, that it is really hard and almost hopeless to write something here. You are not capable to even understand something what sounds different from what you used to hear.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:49 am

The Russian figure skating team is considering not go to Korea. I will support any decision of the athletes.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Virginia » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:48 pm

The IOC has the right to invite/not invite someone to the games. But the athlete HAS THE RIGHT to be informed about the grounds for not-inviting. The IOC has to follow the rule. If after being investigated under the microscope Ivan Bukin (take him as example) was suspected in something bad by Valérie Fourneyron, then she MUST present the explanations. Until now no explanation was given.


Ellen, this is an excellent point. Obviously a reason should, MUST be given for excluding an athlete.

But how do you know that such a reason wasn't given? Did you speak to Bukin personally?

Just because the reasons (violation, failed drug sample, allegation from another person) weren't released to the media, either by the IOC or by the Russian Skating Federation or the Russian Olympic Committee, doesn't mean that no reason was provided to that athlete. That's exactly the kind of information that the authorities would like to see hushed up, especially since the Russian authorities refuse to admit that state-sponsored doping took place, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
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Re: Olympics Wide Open

Postby Ellen » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:19 pm

The reasons for not-inviting Russian figure skaters and the others were not given to the athletes.

Here is the open letter of Ivan Bukin to the IOC president Thomas Bach
http://fsrussia.ru/news/3535-otkrytoe-p ... m-mok.html

Google translation:

"Dear Mr. Bach, members of the International Olympic Committee!

My name is Ivan Bukin. I am a member of the Russian national figure skating team and the son of the Olympic champion in ice dancing of Andrey Bukin, who was paired with Natalia Bestemyanova. My mother is also a former skater.

I grew up in a sports family and from the very childhood I learned that in sport everything can be achieved only by one's own work, and not by behind-the-scenes games or by forbidden medical preparations.

I've been figure skating for many years. And I was never involved in any doping scandal. None of my dope tests were positive. And I do not understand why a few weeks before the Olympic Games, without explaining any reasons, I am suspended from participating in the Winter Olympics.

Games in Korea were to be the first in my sports career. My partner Alexandra Stepanova and I have been going to this for many years. We worked intensively and in this season, according to the sporting principle, were selected to the Olympic team of our country. Last week we became third at the European Championships in Moscow.

Participation in the Olympic Games has always been my cherished dream, and I can not understand and agree with the lack of my name on the list of invited to the Games in Pyeongchang.

I hope that this decision will be revised, giving me the opportunity to participate in the XXIII Olympic Winter Games in 2018.

Ivan Bukin,
Two times Bronze medalist
of the European Championships in Ice Dancing"
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