2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby chuckiem » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:59 pm

bumphystars wrote:I am gutted for Hubbell and Donahue. Their free dance was far and away my fave from the American teams and to see them falter so badly was really heart-breaking. Still, a lot of positives to take away from this, they showed that they aren't necessarily the #3 team in the US at all, they can compete at the top.

Unfortunately that V/M had that fall, which is so uncharacteristic for them. I can't recall them ever having this kind of mistake at Worlds. They pull through on the strength of the rest of their elements and their knock-it-out-of-the-park short dance. Total legends.


V/M didn't get a deduction for the fall, which wasn't on an element anyway.
But the tech team really socked it to the US teams for their errors, including the Shibs, who got an extended lift deduction, allowing Bobrova/Soloviev to finish 3rd in the FD :roll:
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby tennisfan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:03 pm

Jonas wrote:Do you know if the US can "gain back" that 2nd Olympic spot at the designated Olympic qualifying event or will it only be open to other countries, i.e., Australia, Czech Republic, etc., that didn't qualify a spot in Helsinki. If you ask me, I think both the Australian and Czech pairs right now are more deserving to compete in Pyeongchang than a second American pair.

Your thoughts...

No, only countries that don't have an entry in a particular discipline can earn those spots that are available at Nebelhorn or any spots that come available if a country isn't able to fill them. The rule regarding the cap on the # of qualifiers has been there for years - maybe since they started limiting entries for the Olympics in the '90's. This is the first time that it has effected a country with multiple entries.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Maleeva » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:08 pm

This is truly the golden age of men's figure skating. When Chan and Hanyu decided to not retire after Sochi, it helped create what in my opinion is the greatest generation of male skaters. What a time to be a skating fan. Just an amazing event.

I've asked this before on this board, but I wish someone one day would educate me on what the judges see in BobSolo's skating. Yes, I know they skate with speed and passion, but their programs have no emotional impact on me and I think they can be sloppy with their feet and well, her posture, yikes. I would have had Piper and Paul and Anna and Luca, both ahead of BobSolo in the free.

My heart just sank when Zach fell on the twizzle. Up to that point, they had all level 4s in their first five elements. I think they would have won the Bronze without that fall.

The entrance to the twizzles for Chock and Bates has been problematic all season. It is poorly choreographed, because it has them going into the twizzles way too slowly.

Props to Tessa and Scott, holding on for another title and P&G, for deservedly winning the free dance.
Last edited by Maleeva on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Dragonlady » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:26 pm

Maleeva, I'm with you on B&S, There is no excuse to have anyone ahead of them. They get worse every year. Now his posture is going downhill as he strives to match her lines, or maybe he's just giving up.

It was nice to see Chock & Bates get slammed for two perfectly awful programs. Whoever cut the music for the SP should be shot. The pieces they used in both programs are three of my favourite pieces of music but what was done to them and with them was a travesty. Don't chop up music everyone knows the words to. Just don't.

I was just gut punched when Zack fell. Which is not to say the Shibs aren't worthy medalists, it's just that I had such hopes for Madison and Zack this season, and and Montreal school sweep of the podium.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby chuckiem » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:36 pm

I watched the FD on NBCSN with Tanith and Ben Agosto commenting. They spoke about Bobrova / Soloviev's skating, and how it was carefully engineered to cover up their deficiencies (i.e. posture and distance between them). They noted that as soon as their speed increased, all attempts to disguise their problems fell apart.

After B/S skated, Cappellini / LaNotte were next, and Tanith and Ben loved their FD, saying it was the best they'd skated it all season. When the marks came up, Luca sort of said "Whaa?" and Ben said "That sums it up perfectly".

NO WAY should B/S have placed 3rd in the FS.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby chuckiem » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:58 pm

Dragonlady wrote:It was nice to see Chock & Bates get slammed for two perfectly awful programs. Whoever cut the music for the SP should be shot. The pieces they used in both programs are three of my favourite pieces of music but what was done to them and with them was a travesty. Don't chop up music everyone knows the words to. Just don't.


Different strokes for different folks. Lots of people were wrote posts that they were turned off by the proliferation of "Montreal mush" and loved C/B's programs because they were so completely different.

And BTW, I hate to see any dance team get "slammed", particularly for a music arrangement that wasn't done by them. Gilles/Poirier got held down in TES for a relatively minor flub on a twizzle, and IMO it was done simply to keep their score low before Bobrova / Soloviev skated. They looked crushed in the KnC, but were lucky not to be put behind Stepanova/Bukin.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Fiveohnine » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:05 am

You can't invalidate all the elements bobrova and soloviev do because of her posture. Maybe that will be a rule in the future but is not one now. Now I view her posture as like shabalin knee injury! Yes it damages the team enormously and they are held back by it but it does not invalidate any element they do or do well. She is bent at the waste and he couldn't really bend his knee but things were done and they must be given credit. People want leg wraps to invalidate jumps or have mandatory negative goe but look at protocols. Jumps with leg wrap or mule kick get positive goes! When someone loses a twizzle because they fall there is no Rule that says they still should be ahead of a team with a woman who bends at the waste while skating.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby sms29s66 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:02 am

I realize I'm late to the party, but I just became a huge fan of Gilles and Poirier. Have they taken a giant step forward, or is it that I just haven't had the opportunity to see them in the past?

And Jason Brown delivered--just as I thought he would. The judges love his skating--as do we all. Now if he can manage to perfect a quad without marring the beauty of his overall performance!!!!
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby bumphystars » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:44 pm

chuckiem wrote:Different strokes for different folks. Lots of people were wrote posts that they were turned off by the proliferation of "Montreal mush" and loved C/B's programs because they were so completely different.


Yes, we all have different tastes, but good skating is good skating. I just don't feel that C/B are as strong as the other two American teams. Especially Hubbell and Donahue who I feel are better than even the Shibs. I don't like to see any team falter, especially at a "big" moment, but I dislike the politics of the situation even more.

And, for the record, I love the "Montreal Mush," especially since it is performed by some of the best ice dance teams we have ever seen.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Fiveohnine » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:12 pm

Dragonlady wrote:Maleeva, I'm with you on B&S, There is no excuse to have anyone ahead of them. They get worse every year. Now his posture is going downhill as he strives to match her lines, or maybe he's just giving up.

It was nice to see Chock & Bates get slammed for two perfectly awful programs. Whoever cut the music for the SP should be shot. The pieces they used in both programs are three of my favourite pieces of music but what was done to them and with them was a travesty. Don't chop up music everyone knows the words to. Just don't.

I was just gut punched when Zack fell. Which is not to say the Shibs aren't worthy medalists, it's just that I had such hopes for Madison and Zack this season, and and Montreal school sweep of the podium.


Anyone? B/s should have placed last?
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby chuckiem » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:53 pm

As Tanith White and Ben Agosto pointed out, when Bobrova / Soloviev increased their speed, their posture worsened. When both partners are bent at the waist, there is a greater distance between them---and this is NOT a good thing in ice dance. Partners should be as close together as possible so that their leg and foot movements are completely synchronous. Yes, B/S have speed, but their speed has unwanted effects. The distance between the partners should be reflected in both TES and PCS.

In the FD, B/S were NOT closer together than all of the dancers except the top two. IMO, their FD should have placed behind Cappellini/LaNotte and Gilles/Poirier---8th---exactly where they were placed in the SD.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Fiveohnine » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:12 pm

The technical committee would have to introduce clearer rules that posture and distance need automatic deductions in goe and pcs and even possibly invalidating elements. The technical panel measures so much there could very well measures taken and use of replay and there be a rule that knocks down levels or invalidates elements due to partner distance.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Maleeva » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:39 pm

The crowds in Helsinki were amazing. Nice to see sold out events outside of Japan. And boy the Finns sure love their ice dance, making it the closing event of the championships.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Dragonlady » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:05 am

chuckiem wrote:
Dragonlady wrote:It was nice to see Chock & Bates get slammed for two perfectly awful programs. Whoever cut the music for the SP should be shot. The pieces they used in both programs are three of my favourite pieces of music but what was done to them and with them was a travesty. Don't chop up music everyone knows the words to. Just don't.


Different strokes for different folks. Lots of people were wrote posts that they were turned off by the proliferation of "Montreal mush" and loved C/B's programs because they were so completely different.

And BTW, I hate to see any dance team get "slammed", particularly for a music arrangement that wasn't done by them. Gilles/Poirier got held down in TES for a relatively minor flub on a twizzle, and IMO it was done simply to keep their score low before Bobrova / Soloviev skated. They looked crushed in the KnC, but were lucky not to be put behind Stepanova/Bukin.


I have no problem with teams getting slammed for bad choices.

I was actually looking forward to Chock & Bates programs, precisely BECAUSE I really like all of the music they used. Bowie is my alltime favourite solo artist, George Thorogood is one of my favourite male singers, and Uptown Funk is my favourite song of the past 10 years. But the programs were slow and sloppy, expressed the music very poorly, and mostly consisted of Madison making faces. Very disappointing. I said this at Skate Canada, and I watched all season long as their placements dropped like a stone after their silver medal at Skate Canada.

I still love, love, love Hubell & Donahue and I'm sorry about the fall.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Ellen » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:46 am

Dragonlady wrote:Maleeva, I'm with you on B&S, There is no excuse to have anyone ahead of them. They get worse every year. Now his posture is going downhill as he strives to match her lines, or maybe he's just giving up.



About the postures...

I sometimes wonder what the judges are guided by when they give extra Goe for postures. They surely see skating something in a different way, not like us, the audience.
Do you remember how the Canadians Duhamel-Radford performed the parallel 3T in SP? How Radford ran out from the jump (in the posture of the butt at the top :lol: ). Looked very crooked. Nevertheless, three judges gave them +1 Goe for 3T. !?!?
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Maleeva » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:32 pm

To the victor go the spoils. Congatulations to Canada for getting the most entires at next years Olympics. I still cannot believe Japan only gets to send two ladies. Here are the entries:

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-s ... games-2018
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby bumphystars » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:16 pm

Crazy that Russia only has 2 spots for dance. This would have been unthinkable ten years ago...
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby Dragonlady » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:22 pm

bumphystars wrote:Crazy that Russia only has 2 spots for dance. This would have been unthinkable ten years ago...


Russia has no really good dance teams at the moment. B&S are consistently over-marked. Stepanova & Bukin are (in my opinion), the most interesting and unique of the young Russian teams, but they're sloppy, and as long as they don't clean up their feet or their lines, they will not be in a position to challenge the technically strong North American teams.
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Re: 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 3/28-4/02 Helsinki FIN

Postby chuckiem » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:03 pm

Bukin is a competent skater, but Stepanova has never been up to his level. He tows her about the ice, and the lack of good lines is all due to her inability to get in position quick enough to extend her long limbs. She's a beautiful girl, but rather inept.
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