2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:25 am

Jason has a leg injury which makes practicing the quad pretty much impossible. Without the quad, Jason won't place well at Worlds, so no chance to get back the 3 spots for the Olympics.

IMO, Vincent deserves the same chance to go Worlds that Karen and Mariah got. He's already been to JW, so that is no reward for finishing 2nd at Senior Nationals.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby sms29s66 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 am

I'm with Frank Carroll on this. When I watched Gracie Gold's short program, I was still holding out hope. But during the middle of her long program I started thinking it is time for him to fire her. He clearly can't do whatever it is that she needs to get her competitive juices flowing. Maybe she needs this jolt to wake up. Regardless, I want to move on. I stuck with Sasha Cohen, watching every skate with my heart in my throat. I can't go thru it again!!!!

Chuckie, I would trust Jason Brown to place well enough assuming Nathan Chen performs as expected. Vincent Zhou is still a wild card.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Maleeva » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:21 am

So usfs named Brown to the world team. If chen can somehow land himself on the podium in Helsinki, I think a healthy Brown can finish in at least 10th place to give the US three spots for Pyeongchang. I do hope usfs makes him do a test skate first. Though I'm not sure how he can heal a stress fracture while training for the Four Continents Championships?
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Mike » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:30 am

No way should Gold replace Bell for the World team. Mariah Bell is rising. Gold is tanking. Chen and Bell are a breath of fresh air.
Have a beautiful day,

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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby ihsia » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:05 am

In Men's free, why are Zhou's and Hochstein's 2nd triple Lutz invalid?
Any idea?
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:27 am

In Vincent Zhou's case, IMO the call was wrong: Vincent went for 4z but the jump was called as 3z instead of the 4z<< it should have been called. Because he did two 4s and two 3a, he couldn't repeat another jump so his final 3z got no credit.

In Grant's case, it was the same scenario except the call was correct. Grant did two 4ts and two 3as, plus a 3z in a 3 jump combo. He wasn't allowed to repeat a third jump, his final 3z, which got no credit.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby tennisfan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:18 pm

Watching the NBC coverage, Zhou's planned jump content was for the first jump to be a 3Lz and that a decision to go for the quad was a last moment decision. That could be the reason that the 2nd 3Lz was declared an invalid element instead of calling the first jump a downgraded 4Lz and counting the second 3Lz.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Winnipeg » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:03 pm

Watched the ladies final. I was so sad for Gold. She looked defeated before even starting. An announcer quoted her as saying before the competition that she might need to hit rock bottom before she starts getting it back together.

IMO, it looked like she was not so much nervous as defeated before even stepping on the ice.. She seemed to exude a deflated, unexcited, defeated aura.........sadly. :( :(

Ashley looked strong and confident, liked her program as well as Chen's.

Always liked Jason Brown too so am glad he ended up on the podium. He is beautiful to watch.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Dragonlady » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:05 pm

I was looking for comments on Frank Carroll's firing of Gracey Gold. This is the second US Lady in a row who has gone to Frank to make them US Champion, and left a total headcase. I'm starting to think it's Frank.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:18 pm

Frank used to be Denis Ten's coach, too, and isn't anymore. I thought it was horrid of Frank to tell the media that Gracie was "deeply depressed" and then announce he was no longer her coach. Even if it is true that she is in the throes of a depression, he had no business revealing that to the public. Then to announce their split without her presence was just plain mean. AFAIAK, over the past decade, he has grown too old to be effective as a coach.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby sms29s66 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:43 pm

chuckie, be real. It is perfectly obvious to everyone who cares about skating that Gracie is severely depressed. Maybe Frank should not have said it (although I am not conceding that), but it is plain to see. As someone who was responsible for hiring and training people, I have a certain amount of sympathy and almost admiration for Frank--It isn't easy to admit you cannot succeed with someone after investing so much time and effort. It takes a lot of honesty to realize and admit the time has come for a change. He has said he intends to retire after the next Olympics. Perhaps he just doesn't have the energy to deal with this headcase. As an aside, I always thought Kwan made a big mistake leaving him. She went totally downhill after that--no matter what her scores were. Perhaps her time was up anyway, but...
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Dragonlady » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:33 am

I thought it was horrid of Frank to announce it to the press without telling Gracey. That's just rude.

Well as Mirai Nagasu has amply demonstrated, there is life after Frank Carroll. I hope Gracey comes back just as strong.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby bumphystars » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:34 am

If Gracie is seriously depressed or not, it sure ain't Frank's decision to tell the world that she is. That is her business and hugely unethical for him to say something like that, not to mention arrogant.

Gracie needed to leave Frank, IMO. She needs a clean break and a fresh start. She is mega talented, she just needs to find the right motivation again. I so hope she does.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby sms29s66 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:38 am

I agree she needed to leave him. He certainly agrees. It is less certain that Gracie concurred. Sounds to me like he had to shove the chick out of the nest. BTW, y'all appear to be treating depression as though it is somehow shameful. Would it have been unethical had he announced she had a cold or a broken foot? Depression can be treated and overcome--I know that from personal experience. For me, it included a painful divorce--not totally unlike what's going on here.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby bumphystars » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:25 pm

I don't think that at all about depression, and that's the point. If she had breast cancer and he announced it to the world, would that have been appropriate? Heck, even if she had a common cold, it's HER health, and he's not the one who should be talking to the public about it, unless of course she asked him to. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby chuckiem » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:47 pm

Neither Nagasu nor Gold was a headcase before they came to Carroll---they were very young, very talented young girls. They left Frank confused headcases. I just hope it doesn't take Gracie as long to get hold of herself as it took Mirai.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby sms29s66 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:20 pm

Well, we just don't know what the arrangements are/were contractually between this skater and coach re: press releases, do we? I just choose not to view Frank Carroll as some kind of monster.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby bumphystars » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:50 pm

Not saying he is a monster here, but I am saying he may have shown a lack of judgement.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby Winnipeg » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:57 pm

IMHO it was unprofessional to make a contractual announcement as FC did to the media. He and Gold should have met, discussed, agreed (or agreed to disagree) and then and only then, make the announcement. To me, this smacks of FC publicly throwing Gold under the bus after her poor performance.

Secondly, I sincerely hope that Gold gets the support she needs to recover from her current/recent challenges whatever they may be.
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Re: 2017 US CHAMPIONSHIPS

Postby sms29s66 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:08 am

Could someone post a link to anything showing FC "announced" GG is deeply depressed? I haven't seen one. What was said during the telecast was that after her skate FC asked her something about her vest, she told him to throw it away, so he did, and that later she "quietly" retrieved it. Is it possible that GG told him she was firing him and then was surprised when he took her up on it? As for him disclosing her depression, that doesn't seem to be the case. We've been treated to interviews with her all season discussing her deep funk, her weight, and every other emotion she has had since losing at World's in Boston. Perhaps he was the first to use the actual word, but she has been talking about it for months.
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