GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:24 pm

I was glad to see Aliev win the Junior men's event over Samarin. Dmitri has let so many high level competitions elude him in the FS and he almost let this one get away from him again. He seems to woolgather mid-FS and I saw it starting to happen again, and then, no---he pulled himself together and fought through to the end of the program. Good for him! He was so happy on the podium.

IMO, Cha was the best skater, technically and artistically, but he blew the SP and when he fell on the 3f combo, the gold was gone. He will win the JGPF next year, count on it.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby tennisfan » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:07 pm

Medvedeva should drop the talking from the music. As an audience member, it completely took me out of the program and I had difficulty focusing on the program and her performance after hearing George W. Bush's voice and the other people talking. The program can be an interpretation of an act of terrorism or 9/11 without having literal attachment to the events of that day.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:29 pm

SENIOR LADIES FREE SKATE

1 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA RUS 148.45 74.23 74.22 9.14 9.11 9.29 9.39 9.46 0.00 6 3f, 3z!, 3lo, 3f+3t, 2a+2t+2t, 3s+3t, 2a
2 Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 143.69 73.24 70.45 8.89 8.68 8.89 8.86 8.71 0.00 5 3lo, 3z+3t, 3f<, 3z+2t+2lo, 2a+3t, 3s, 2a
3 Anna POGORILAYA RUS 143.18 73.52 69.66 8.71 8.50 8.79 8.75 8.79 0.00 3 3z+3t, 3f!, 2a, 3z+1lo+3s, 3lo+2t, 3lo, 2a
4 Kaetlyn OSMOND CAN 136.91 66.85 70.06 8.75 8.54 8.82 8.82 8.86 0.00 4 3f+3t, 2a+2t, 3z, 3lo, 3f, 2s+1t+2lo, 2a
5 Maria SOTSKOVA RUS 133.05 66.77 66.28 8.25 8.07 8.43 8.29 8.39 0.00 2 3z+3t, 3f, 3lo, 3f<+1lo+3s<, 3z, 2a+2t, 2a
6 Elena RADIONOVA RUS 119.83 55.50 65.33 8.18 7.86 8.14 8.36 8.29 1.00 1 3z<↓, 3f, 3z+3t<, 3lo+1lo+3s<<, 2a, 3s, 2a


In what universe does Kaetlyn Osmond have better skating skills than Anna Pogorilaya?
Maria Sotskova had a far better FS than Kaetlyn and should have outscored her in the FS, at least. She didn't fade at the end the way Kaetlyn did and bollix up the combo.

FINAL STANDINGS

1 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA RUS 227.66 1 1
2 Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 218.33 3 2
3 Anna POGORILAYA RUS 216.47 4 3
4 Kaetlyn OSMOND CAN 212.45 2 4
5 Maria SOTSKOVA RUS 198.79 6 5
6 Elena RADIONOVA RUS 188.81 5 6


At least for once, Satoko wasn't URd off the podium.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby tennisfan » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:19 pm

Well the men's free skate just bombed. Uno and Chen were great and than the top 3 come out and give the worst performances that we've seen from any of them in years. It was like Nathan Chen broke the ice after landing four quads and the others couldn't get over there skates.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:46 pm

SENIOR MEN FREE SKATE

1 Nathan CHEN USA 197.55 113.13 84.42 8.46 8.11 8.79 8.46 8.39 0.00 3 4z+3t, 4f, 4t+2t+2lo, 4t, 3a, 3lo, 3f+3t, 3z :shock:
2 Shoma UNO JPN 195.69 104.75 90.94 8.93 8.79 9.32 9.14 9.29 0.00 1 4f, 4t, 3lo, 3a, 4t+2t, 3z!, 3a+1lo+3f, 3s 8)
3 Yuzuru HANYU JPN 187.37 96.01 92.36 9.36 9.11 9.07 9.32 9.32 1.00 4 4lo, 4s, 3f, 4s<↓+rep, 4t, 3a+3t, 3a+1lo<<+2s, 1z :?
4 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 177.01 86.17 91.84 9.36 9.11 9.07 9.32 9.32 1.00 5 3t, 4s+2t, 3a+2t, 4s<, 3a↓, 3z, 3f!+1lo+3s, 3lo :cry:
5 Patrick CHAN CAN 166.99 80.21 90.78 9.32 9.11 8.57 9.18 9.21 4.00 6 4t↓, 3a↓, 4s, 3t, 3a↓+rep, 3lo, 3z+2t+2lo, 3f :oops:
6 Adam RIPPON USA 149.17 67.97 83.20 8.32 8.07 8.07 8.50 8.64 2.00 2 4t<<↓, 3f+3t, 3s, 3a+2t, 3a, 3z↓, 3lo, 3z+rep

FINAL STANDINGS

1 Yuzuru HANYU JPN 293.89 1 3
2 Nathan CHEN USA 282.85 5 1
3 Shoma UNO JPN 282.51 4 2
4 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 268.77 3 4
5 Patrick CHAN CAN 266.55 2 5
6 Adam RIPPON USA 233.10 6 6

Way to go, Nathan! They said you couldn't do any better than 5th, but you showed them!
I hope you can repeat that performance at Nationals, because if you do, NO ONE can beat you.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Maleeva » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:25 pm

Does anyone know if Nathan set a record technical score in the free? Does the isu track that?
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby tennisfan » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:02 am

Maleeva wrote:Does anyone know if Nathan set a record technical score in the free? Does the isu track that?


No, and No. Hanyu scored over 120 at last year's Grand Prix Final.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Maleeva » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:28 am

Ok thanks
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Maleeva » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:17 pm

My goodness. All of the ladies scored level 4 on every element and 5 of the 6 scored season's best scores. Can't wait to watch all of the programs tonight on NBC SN channel.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Dragonlady » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:20 pm

Maleeva wrote:My goodness. All of the ladies scored level 4 on every element and 5 of the 6 scored season's best scores. Can't wait to watch all of the programs tonight on NBC SN channel.


I streamed it live to my big screen and it was just one perfect program after another. I can't recall a better Ladies event, in terms of the skating. Sadly CBC isn't broadcasting it to TV until next weekend. Just Pairs, Dance and Men today. But they are to be commended for cutting out the replays, and mugging from the Kiss N Cry, and just showing the program, and as they are taking their bows, the score, and on to the next. The commentators have also cut the chatter during the programs. Much better.

It's wonderful to see Kaitlyn Osmond finally getting the kind of PCS marks from the judges she clearly deserves. Medved's marks are still a puzzlement to me. The girl has no ice coverage, either with her programs or her jumps, she's not down into the ice, and she has no power. She does everything neatly and cleanly, rotates her jumps even if they go up and down in the same spot, and seldom makes a mistake, but she doesn't cover the ice end to end, and she's relying on unbalanced programs, and Boitano-ing all her jumps to rack up the points.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:32 pm

Osmond makes the same mistakes on her 3 jump combo every time---her energy starts to flag at the midpoint of her program and the errors creep in. Maybe she needs off-ice training to build stamina. Furthermore, she loses points because her FS is so front-loaded.

Medvedeva maximizes her points by backloading her FS, and many of the other Russian ladies are following her example and doing the same.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby patinage65 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Two questions:

Is this the first time Chan landed the quad sal in competition?

Does anyone else think that Miyahara had URs in her FS that weren't called this time around? I find her skating exquisite, but was shocked by how high her score was.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Jonas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:09 pm

Dragonlady wrote:A few years ago, it appeared that Pairs skating was on the decline and would soon disappear. The development ranks were thinning, and there weren't enough Jr. Pairs to fill competitions. Now there is a resurgence in Pairs skating. Watching these Juniors, I can see the future of the sport, and I think it has a great future.


Agree completely! I hope you got a chance to see the Junior Pairs FS as there was some good skating there! As a whole there seems to be a good, continued rebuilding of the Russian pairs program and what's equally exciting for me to see is that there are a variety of coaching schools, if you will, among Russian pairs. There's some former pairs competitors from the early 2000s, e.g., Alexei Sokolov, taking on pairs coaching duties here. Different coaches yields variety in styles, which makes it interesting. However, the one common ground that I'm seeing among these junior pairs is a renewed focus on unison, tracking and performing simpler moves, yet done so well -- all of the goodies that I kinda miss from the old, bygone Soviet era.

I will definitely be following these junior pairs more closely and cheering on their development as they move up the ranks.

Your thoughts...
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Jonas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:22 pm

chuckiem wrote:I was glad to see Aliev win the Junior men's event over Samarin.


I was impressed with both Aliev and Samarin here -- both very promising prospects for RUS in the very near future.

With one fall each from both their performances I thought Samarin would have the edge based on the more difficult jump offering, but it was Aliev's level of overall performance that gave him that needed PCS nudge that eventually won him the day. I agree that it was well deserved. Aliev's performance here was unexpectedly touching and I was really surprised with his ability to draw me into his performance. IIRC, he scrapped his more brute, alphamale style, if you will, FS from the Jr. Grand Prix, for this softer Josh Groban piece. He also took out his second quad attempt, but the refocused attention to line, extension, and expression without fully comprising his jumps and Aliev's persona really paid off.

I believe both guys are age eligible for Finland, so if Kovtun and/or Kolyada and/or Voronov tank, why not take a chance with either or both of these two??

Your thoughts...
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby can-skate » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:26 pm

patinage65 wrote:Two questions:

Is this the first time Chan landed the quad sal in competition?

Does anyone else think that Miyahara had URs in her FS that weren't called this time around? I find her skating exquisite, but was shocked by how high her score was.


I'm a little concerned about Chan's lack of concern that he skated so poorly. This was the first time he landed the quad sal in competition. You have to give it to him, he was looking at the positive's that came out of this competition. Lets hope he can now put it all together for worlds.

To me the flip was the only jump that I could see that was under-rotated which the judges marked as such. What makes a jump a downgrade? Is it more the a quarter turn cheat? There may have been an argument that it should have been downgraded. If Chuckie's argument about Chan's height and elevation on the triple axel is correct then what about Miyahara's lack of elevation on all her jumps...At least Chan vs. Yuzu is a lot closer in comparison then Miyahara vs oh lets just say Kaetlyn to choose one!!
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Jonas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Maleeva wrote:Ladies: I coninue to adore this new Anna P who now skates with true artistry, with full facial expressions. I prever her PCS areas over those of Medved. So happy for Kaetyn skating a PB here in the short. That girl has some amazing speed and flow in and out of her jumps. Hoping she can finally skate a clean free program this season and challenge Medved.


YES!! I started seeing this even as early as the Summer Russian Test Skates and each time Pogo gets out there this season and kills it, I'm just there eating it all up! While some argue she doesn't have the nicest line, I'm just loving the entire package: speed, reliable triples, the bigness of her skating, a newly found ease of movement, emotional abnadon. Can I also add that I'm feeling a sensual, Maria Butyrskaya-esque vibe?!?! Definitely prefer her to Medvedeva in just about every aspect as well.

Speaking of Medvedeva -- I really don't want to keep raining on this poor girl's parade, but I simply just feel the need to continually complain about and question ad nausuem some of the scores she's getting. Not saying she didn't deserve to win here, but I (and perhaps many in the audience) really don't think she won the FS, yet she did. The cushion the judges are seemingly providing for her continues to baffle me.

Kaetlyn Osmond should be proud of her accomplishment here -- namely, reaffirming that she is the World medallist caliber skating that many, myself included, think of her as. She's got all the goods and if she scores 135+ for a five-triple FS ((including a 3loop finally!!), she's gotta know that the World podium is easily within her grasp if she can absolutely nail it.

Your thoughts...
Last edited by Jonas on Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Jonas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:22 pm

patinage65 wrote:Does anyone else think that Miyahara had URs in her FS that weren't called this time around? I find her skating exquisite, but was shocked by how high her score was.


I think her jumps were credited correctly in the FS, but I thought she should've been dinged in the SP. I sometimes notice a tendency in her prerotating her 3Lutz -- especially in 3Lutz-3toes. She doesn't get the height but rotates insanely tight and quick that it's hard for me to tell in real time whether there's an underrotation on the front and/or back end. Miyahara is probably one of the most reliable and consistent ladies' competitor in this Olympiad, but her results can be crapshoot depending on who the technical specialist is.

Your thoughts...
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Jonas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:47 pm

tennisfan wrote:Well the men's free skate just bombed. Uno and Chen were great and than the top 3 come out and give the worst performances that we've seen from any of them in years. It was like Nathan Chen broke the ice after landing four quads and the others couldn't get over there skates.


Yeah... :(

I commend the judges for not protocol judging and marking Chen and Uno as the best performances of the night.

Rippon already began with a substantial technical deficit. Big mistakes here.

Chen's quads just can't be denied and they rack up points real quick. While he is not the most engaging or thoughtful or mature "artiste" out there, there was an ease in delivery of all the elements. No question now: he IS the USFSA's best World medal hope for the men.

IMO, Hanyu just looked visibly spent and not in a good way. To me it really affected the performance and I honestly wouldn't have scored the PE and IN components in the 9s.

Fernandez's jumps went AWOL today and worse yet is that the lack of the big jumps exposes how relatively weakly the rest of his FS stands up against the others and further exacerbates many of his relative weaknesses.

After Fernandez tanked, Chan had the title on a silver platter and I thought he would just grab the golden opportunity. The 3Axels got in the way unfortunately. Landing his 4Sal ended up being the only silver lining.

Your thoughts...
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:18 pm

It wasn't just the two 3As that got in Chan's way---it was the first 4t which he fell on, and then the second 4t which he turned into a 3t. It almost seems as if his work on the 4s has messed up his 4t entrance.

I think Chan would have been more dismayed about his performance if Javier hadn't also bombed badly, and Yuzuru wasn't nearly at his best as well. But Chan should consider that if he has another Worlds like Worlds 2016, and if Chen has another performance like his GPF one at Worlds, Chan could find himself being passed by the 17-year-old for a third time.
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Re: GRAND PRIX FINAL 12/8-11 MARSEILLE FRA

Postby Maleeva » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:24 am

After watching the the short and free dances, for me, Hubbell and Donohue have offcially passed Chock and Bates this season. I enjoy both of H&D's dances better and I really think Zach is a magnicent dancer.

Looking forward to seeing what the USFS judges think at Kansas City in January.
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