WADA Report

Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:36 pm

About the proof in WADA report.
Swiss company Berlinger, the producer of the samples containers told that
"We do not have accurate information about how the Commission of Richard McLaren carried out a study. Our company regularly checks the vials for strength, and not in our tests, or in any experiments of the independent Institute the closed sealed sample could be open" - said in a statement. "This also applies to copies for the Sochi Games. Of course we will study the report and discuss its findings with our specialists and experts. "

So if the producer doesn't know how to open the containers, then how McLaren could prove that the containers were opened to replace the contents during Sochi games...
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Re: WADA Report

Postby chuckiem » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:43 pm

Then how was it that the DNA of the samples contained in the vials did not match the DNA of the athletes they supposedly came from? Somehow those vials were opened and the contents changed.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:04 pm

Over the past days I read and listened to a lot of interviews on this subject.
I got impression that the report is raw. It has a lot of unclear places, so in its current state it cannot be used to make such serious accusations as were made towards Russia. The report must be more developed and made more specific to become the real proof.
Russian sports authorities asked for the detailes which could help in internal investigation to find the guilty persons and make necessary changes in the Russian system of doping control. However unfortunately no details or names of any athletes were provided by McLaren's comission.
The whole idea was to put pressure on IOC to apply strict measures toward Russian team in few days before the start of OG in Rio.

If you heard the McLaren interview, the first what he said was:
We do not know how it was but we know how it could be.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Dragonlady » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:52 am

The report is not raw, it's the final report. Maybe if you read that instead of just listening to interviews, it all might make more sense.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:04 am

Dragonlady wrote:The report is not raw, it's the final report. Maybe if you read that instead of just listening to interviews, it all might make more sense.


I cannot check myself the statements made in the report. Therefore I listen to the interviews of people who have the information. For example, Rene Fazel, the IOC memeber, told in interview that
"The report by Richard McLaren said the three representatives of the shooting sports, whose doping tests allegedly disappeared. But this is completely wrong information, because the identity of all three competitors were established, and they were disqualified in accordance with all regulations.
So it is not all that is written in the report of McLaren, is based on real facts "

The IOC memeber was quoted as saying...
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:21 pm

Will the Olympics eventually go the way of the dodo bird................. :|
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Re: WADA Report

Postby penney » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:22 pm

Rene Fazel..... the same person given the Russian "Order of Friendship" a while back..... can't see any potential bias there. Anyway, not sure it makes much sense to disregard a complete report because the details in regards to three athletes is off. It's not like they were found guilty when in fact they were innocent. There are still 640 other cases to look at.

Due to time constraints with the Olympics so close to the horizon, I'm sure there are other small mistakes to be found, but lets not shoot the messenger.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:05 pm

penney wrote:Rene Fazel..... the same person given the Russian "Order of Friendship" a while back..... can't see any potential bias there. Anyway, not sure it makes much sense to disregard a complete report because the details in regards to three athletes is off. It's not like they were found guilty when in fact they were innocent. There are still 640 other cases to look at.

Due to time constraints with the Olympics so close to the horizon, I'm sure there are other small mistakes to be found, but lets not shoot the messenger.


Because of that report my country's athletes were close to miss the Olympic games.
The sportsmen who for several years worked hard and devoted all their time one goal - compete at the Olympics - could be unfairly robbed.
Good that most of the Russian Olympic team is going to Rio.
However we see a huge iniquity when for example the two times Olympic champion and World record-breaker Yelena Isinbaeva - who never ever had any doping cases - is not allowed to compete. ( The reason - she trained in Russia but the Athletics Federation put condition that the Russian athletes must had been trained outside of Russia for past two years (?!?!)). At the same time Justin Gatlin from the US who TWICE passed doping ban is very welcome to RIO?!?!!
And that WADA report which contains doubtful assumptions and written only based on words of the person with the criminal past is so heavily used to decide on the future of the Sports in the whole country.
I and all people who I know cannot find words about what is going on. That's too much, that went too far in the Cold War and in the information war against Russia.
Last edited by Ellen on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby penney » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:37 am

The sportsmen who for several years worked hard and devoted all their time one goal - compete at the Olympics - could be unfairly robbed.


I assume you mean the sportsmen from countries where they don't use drugs - they're the ones being robbed.

Seriously though, you do realize these accounts are coming from Russians who are talking about other Russians...... plus they are high enough up the food chain that it's reasonable to expect they know what they're talking about.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:53 am

penney wrote:
The sportsmen who for several years worked hard and devoted all their time one goal - compete at the Olympics - could be unfairly robbed.


I assume you mean the sportsmen from countries where they don't use drugs - they're the ones being robbed.


Before writing something like this please note that since 1990 the most number of Olympic medals were revoked from the US athletes (7 Gold out of total 10) for using drugs.
Countries whose athletes also had to give back their Olympic medals: Russia, Spain, Hungary, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Belarus, Italy, Bahrain, Romania, Ireland, Turkey, North Korea, Greece, Sweden, Norway, Great Britain, Croatia, Jamaica, China, Armenia, Uzbekistan, etc...
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:24 pm

Which is why I think the Olys are doomed. People will always try and find a way around the doping tests and one can never be sure IMO if an athlete is really clean or not
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Re: WADA Report

Postby penney » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:17 pm

To be honest, I was being tongue in cheek in regards to the sportsmen from other countries not using drugs. Sadly I don't think there are too many that fall in that category these days, at least of medal winning caliber.

What I find notable about this sordid tale is the apparent bureaucratic/govermental involvement. That doesn't happen very often as I recall.

And for what it's worth..... I'm not American..... and what Winnipeg says I agree with although the amount of money involved means the Games could hang around for a long time.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Athena » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:39 pm

On the subject of state doping programs, here is an interesting article from a UK newspaper, The Guardian, which runs a regular column where different people describe an experience that has affected them. Those on this board who have been following skating since the 80's may remember an East German skater Marie Katrin Kanitz. Here she details her training, her later discovery of the way they were drugged, and the effects on her health in later life.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... rin-kanitz
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Re: WADA Report

Postby wmari » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:51 pm

Very patriotic of Ellen but I get a feeling that she is repeating words of Russian officials I heard many times myself on Russian media. As being Russian myself I know how corrupt the entire system is therefore I inclined to think that what is in WADA report for the most part is very likely to be true.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:48 pm

wmari wrote: I inclined to think that what is in WADA report for the most part is very likely to be true.


Likely, unlikely... How do you know? Nobody still cared to give any worth evidence. All only keep repeating like mantra about Russian doping.

For me the most likely thing is that most of the US team sit on doping. Considering the latest revealed facts that the dozens top US athletes including the 4-times Rio gold medalist Simone Biles used the doping drugs regularly since 2010.
Those drugs that Williams sisters and Simone Biles were using are in the WADA's banned list as performance enhancing drugs. Even if it's for legit medical reasons if it gives them a huge advantage they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Take it to the extreme, someone without legs using a motorized wheelchair to compete in a marathon.
If the drug is in the banned list - it is not allowed to Everybody. It's plain and simple.

Maria Sharapova is still not allowed to compete for using Meldonium which is not performance enhancing medicine, even NHL officially allowed Meldonium. At the same time Serena and Vinus Williams have been taking very strong drugs - I wonder what they were diagnosed and who were the doctors that made those medical prescriptions.
If all is legal why then the facts, that the US athletes use doping, are kept secret by USADA?
Last edited by Ellen on Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby GoFigure » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:58 pm

Ellen, I would like to use the same expression used by Patsy Stone, but I won't.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:29 pm

Frankly, I don't know what to say anymore about doping other than it does not appear to be under control.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby bumphystars » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:12 am

Ellen wrote:
wmari wrote: I inclined to think that what is in WADA report for the most part is very likely to be true.


Likely, unlikely... How do you know? Nobody still cared to give any worth evidence. All only keep repeating like mantra about Russian doping.

For me the most likely thing is that most of the US team sit on doping. Considering the latest revealed facts that the dozens top US athletes including the 4-times Rio gold medalist Simone Biles used the doping drugs regularly since 2010.
Those drugs that Williams sisters and Simone Biles were using are in the WADA's banned list as performance enhancing drugs. Even if it's for legit medical reasons if it gives them a huge advantage they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Take it to the extreme, someone without legs using a motorized wheelchair to compete in a marathon.
If the drug is in the banned list - it is not allowed to Everybody. It's plain and simple.

Maria Sharapova is still not allowed to compete for using Meldonium which is not performance enhancing medicine, even NHL officially allowed Meldonium. At the same time Serena and Vinus Williams have been taking very strong drugs - I wonder what they were diagnosed and who were the doctors that made those medical prescriptions.
If all is legal why then the facts, that the US athletes use doping, are kept secret by USADA?


Ellen, the Williams sisters and Simone Biles had to take drugs for LEGITIMATE medical reasons and we honest and upfront to WADA about it, as these leaks reveal. Sharapova, and many other athletes (many Russian, some not) took drugs and were NOT honest with WADA about it. How is there any comparison here?
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:27 am

bumphystars wrote:Ellen, the Williams sisters and Simone Biles had to take drugs for LEGITIMATE medical reasons and we honest and upfront to WADA about it, as these leaks reveal. Sharapova, and many other athletes (many Russian, some not) took drugs and were NOT honest with WADA about it. How is there any comparison here?


I will remind to you that Maria Sharapova openly admitted that by mistake she continued taking Meldonium after Jan-2016. Please note that until Jan-2016 the Meldonium was not in WADA's list.
On the contrary we have no information about the reasons why Williams sisters were prescribed the drugs from the WADA list. Why they were not using the analgesics which were not banned, instead they were prescribed the strong narcotic analgesics from WADA's list having the performance enhancing effect. All is kept secret inside WADA. Of course juridically they did all legally, however WADA has already compromised itself so noone can trust this organization any more.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby chuckiem » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:48 pm

WADA announced in SEPTEMBER 2015 that Meldonium was going to be added to the banned list as of January 1, 2016. This information was broadcasted well in advance of the ban so that athletes who were using the drug would cease its use before the ban effective date.
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