WADA Report

Re: WADA Report

Postby Fiveohnine » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:43 am

Maleeva wrote:Bumping up.

The IOC will decide on Dec 5 if Russia can compete at the Olympics. My guess is they will be allowed to compete, even if perhaps as neutral athletes.

I really think few if any figure skaters are breaking these drug rules. I for one, would miss all of the Russian skaters at the Olympics and all four skating disciplines would be greatly impacted, especially the ladies. It would just cast a large shadow over skating at these games and the medals won would for me always have a *** by the names of the medal winners. “Oh yeah, that was the year so and so won a medal because Russia was banned from the games”.

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id ... r-olympics

So you are saying Russia is banned but Russians aren’t? That’s total nonstarter for everyone in power in Russia when it comes to the Olympics. They agreed to it for IAAF world championships and maybe they would agree to it for Olympics But unless they all want to run for re-election as flip floppers it’s not happening! My guess is russia bans any travel to South Korea for sports related reasons in February of 2018! That’s the only way for it to work logistically. Or any athlete who competes in South Korea as a neutral athlete is permanently banned from participating in sports in Russia again!
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:06 pm

Maleeva wrote:Bumping up.

The IOC will decide on Dec 5 if Russia can compete at the Olympics. My guess is they will be allowed to compete, even if perhaps as neutral athletes.

I really think few if any figure skaters are breaking these drug rules. I for one, would miss all of the Russian skaters at the Olympics and all four skating disciplines would be greatly impacted, especially the ladies. It would just cast a large shadow over skating at these games and the medals won would for me always have a *** by the names of the medal winners. “Oh yeah, that was the year so and so won a medal because Russia was banned from the games”.

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id ... r-olympics


Besides figure skating the Olympic hockey championship will not be the true competition.
Also without the Russian skiers, biathlonists, speed-skaters, short-track skaters, and others who won medals at the World championships over the past three years.
I do not think there are any reasons to ban Russia from the 2018 Olympics games. In the past years the Russian sportsmen in each discipline were tested three times more often than anybody else. No doping was found. To the Russians there was more than a fervent attention from WADA.

If Russia is banned from the Olympic Games or the IOC ask Russia to participate under neutral flag, then to the whole World it would clearly look as the political decision.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:00 pm

It would be sad if Russia or any country was banned.

However, if the rules are not enforced, then what's the point anyway? I am not saying that Russia doped or did not dope; am only saying that if there is evidence then there need to be consequences regardless of the country - so it is not political, it should be evidence and rules based only whichever way it goes.

Re the point about a tainted medal if the Russians are not there because of doping (has to be proven though), what about the potential for a tainted medal if they are there but under doubt for cheating? Goes both ways.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby tennisfan » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:04 pm

Six medals have already been stripped from Russian athletes from the Sochi Olympics in the past few weeks and the IOC committee examining the doping in Sochi is still working. Most of the Russian cross-country ski team and skeleton team have had there results from Sochi nullified because of doping. I don't think the IOC will ban the Russians but we will have to wait and see. Putin has said that if the Russian Olympic Committee is banned, meaning that Russian athletes could compete under the Olympic flag, that the team would not go to the games.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:38 am

tennisfan wrote: Most of the Russian cross-country ski team and skeleton team have had there results from Sochi nullified because of doping.


"MOST" of the Russian cross-country ski team and skeleton team?? Yes, IOC deprived the medals of two skiers, not because they found any doping, but because some scratches were found on their test tubes from Sochi. How and when these scratches appeared, no one explained. The Skiers will continue to perform at the World Cup stages as the FIS didn't find any evidence of their guilt. The skiers are suing to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) and will impugn the decision of the IOC since it is unjustifiably fabricated.

tennisfan wrote: Putin has said that if the Russian Olympic Committee is banned, meaning that Russian athletes could compete under the Olympic flag, that the team would not go to the games.

I haven't heard V.Putin saying that. I follow all the news about the upcoming Olympics. Please give a link to the source.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Fiveohnine » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:52 am

Putin is very clear! Either Russians will have their flag and anthem or no Russians at all!!

There are two options left to the Olympic Committee: to allow Russia to participate in games under a neutral flag or to prevent the country from entering the Olympics, Putin considers.

"Both options are a humiliation for the country, and if some think that they will affect the course of the election campaign in Russia in the spring of next year, they are deeply misled. The effect will be opposite to what is expected - the Olympic movement will be seriously harmed, "Putin said, quoted by R-Sport.


http://m.novinite.com/articles/184457/P ... Country%22?
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:45 am

in fact - yes. I also think that without the flag and the anthem the Russian sportsmen should not go. Although I feel very sorry for them.
I do not see where is the fight against doping here. The ban on wearing a national flag is a fight against doping or with the Russian flag?
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Virginia » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:49 pm

I have to agree with Ellen on this one.

If Russian athletes cheated (or were aided or forced to cheat by their sports federations or government), then that should be punished and stripped of their medals and placements.

Allowing them to compete in the next Olympics without the Russian flag on their sleeves is no fit punishment. They still get to compete, and everybody knows what country they represent. It's a meaningless gesture AND it's blatantly political, which the Olympics are supposed to avoid.

Russian athletes who are not guilty of doping do not deserve punishment or censure, and they have the right to compete under their country's flag just like anyone else.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby tennisfan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:34 am

Ellen wrote:"MOST" of the Russian cross-country ski team and skeleton team?? Yes, IOC deprived the medals of two skiers, not because they found any doping, but because some scratches were found on their test tubes from Sochi. How and when these scratches appeared, no one explained. The Skiers will continue to perform at the World Cup stages as the FIS didn't find any evidence of their guilt. The skiers are suing to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) and will impugn the decision of the IOC since it is unjustifiably fabricated.

4 out of 6 skeleton athletes, all four cross-country relays and number of individual results have all been nullified by the IOC. FIS has said they don't have access to the evidence that the IOC commission is using to make these decisions which is why they weren't able to proceed with their own cases. I think FIS may have moved too quickly with their cases before the evidence had been fully compiled and the cases investigated. Obviously these athletes are entitled to appeal to the CAS so we'll just have to see how those cases proceed.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:52 am

In fact, the situation looks absurd. The Russian athletes are taken off the medals because of alleged manipulations with their dope-samples in Sochi. No doping was found (!). But in fact only WADA is responsible for the collection of the dope tests, their processing, transportation and storage. The athlete's duty is only to hand over his/her biological material to WADA’s official. If there were any manipulations with the test tubes, any unauthorized access to the storage rooms by anyone, then that means that WADA did not provide their safety. Hence, WADA must be guilty for not organizing the proper security. However in Sochi WADA had no complaints or any censure to the host country. All was done by WADA according to its standards and requirements.
And now the IOC punished the athletes. Besides the IOC did not release the motivation for these decisions. It seems that everything is done to ensure that these athletes miss the qualification starts and to not be able be selected for the Games.

I thought these days over the Russia’s participation in the Olympics, and changed my opinion. I believe that Russia (if allowed) must go to Pyongchang in any status under any flag and win the medals. All this scandal was arranged just to remove Russia as the strong team from the Games. It is certainly welcomed by other countries - they hope to get more medals while the Russian sportsmen are out. Therefore, we must go under any flag and win. The Russian sportsmen are the clean athletes, they have been tested for doping more than anybody else over the last four years outside of Russia. No one has any right to name the Russian athlete as not clean.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Dragonlady » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:58 pm

Now that the decision has been made public, I’m very sad. It seems like the Russian athletes are being punished for the actions of their government and/federations. I know Putin has said that athletes must be allowed to compete under the Russian flag but I hope he’ll reconsider.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Maleeva » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:43 pm

I do not believe figure skaters dope. I think the ISU does a good job testing its athletes. I hope all Russian skaters are allowed to compete or every skating event at the Olympics will be diminished.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Jonas » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm

From what I understand, the International Olympic Committee is allowing Russian athletes to compete in Pyeongchang as long as: 1.) They're drug tested clean; and 2.)They compete under the Olympic flag as an Olympian from Russia or something like that. To me this is fair. At this point, it's Pooty-Tang that seems to be punishing Russia's fair playing athletes since he's inclined to forbid them from competing in Pyeongchang because he insists on them competing explicitly and plainly for Russia and under the Russian flag. Come on now, dude!

Your thoughts...
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Virginia » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:11 pm

No boycott. Russian athletes are free to choose to compete:

http://tass.com/sport/979423
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Re: WADA Report

Postby sms29s66 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:19 pm

Do we have faith that those athletes who are clean will really have a free "choice"? I hope I'm wrong because I want whoever wins the ladies competition not to have an asterisk after their medal.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

I don't get the asterisk thing, actually disagree with it.

Am glad to hear the clean athletes can compete.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby sms29s66 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:03 pm

Winnipeg, Russia boycotted the 1984 LA summer games when our gymnasts won gold, and whenever our gold medals are discussed, there is a mention of the fact that the Russians were not there, implying that their absence was a factor. The same thing will happen if Yvegenia Medvedeva (sp?) does not compete for patriotic reasons. Heck, it will probably happen even if her injury keeps her from competing. It might even happen if she competes, but is not up to par due to her injury. The ladies gold is hers to lose, so if she is not there, the eventual winner will have a cloud over her medal.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby bumphystars » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:18 pm

If Medvedeva competes, even with injury, and doesn't win, I hardly think that the actual winner will have any "sterisk" applied to her name.

Does Viktor Petrenko have an asterisk next to his OGM because three-time world champ Kurt Browning (far and away the favourite that year) competed against him with an injured back that season? Or Alexi Urmanov, for that matter?

But, back to the point about the doping. It would be a giant shame if skaters like Medvedeva couldn't compete at all (assuming she is clean, which I believe she is). However, I see the argument in banning them, too. This was a systemic infraction that came from the very top of not just the Russian Olympic committee but the government itself. That is a massive breach of ethics, and the message would be far stronger if athletes from that governed country were barred from competing, period. A far stronger incentive for everyone to play by the rules and stamp out this brazen garbage for good. And that would also take the onus off of individual organizations to ensure their athletes are clean and put it into the hands of the higher ups...who call the shots anyways.

Again, not saying that's what I think should happen—honestly, I'm not sure where I stand on this—but it is a valid point of view, IMO.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby sms29s66 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:35 am

Alexi Urmanov was never accepted as a real Olympic champion. I ended up feeling very sorry for him. He even commented that he never got the recognition and opportunities he expected after his win. I saw him in one of those stars on ice tours shortly after, and he was certainly not featured as the current gold medalist. It was sad.

I am not a fan of Medved, and I would love to see someone else win gold, but only fair and square on a level playing field. I want someone to beat her--not just win because of the ban or even her injury. I want someone to outskate her!!!!
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:24 am

bumphystars wrote:However, I see the argument in banning them, too. This was a systemic infraction that came from the very top of not just the Russian Olympic committee but the government itself. That is a massive breach of ethics, and the message would be far stronger if athletes from that governed country were barred from competing, period.


Really? You must have read it in the Americal mass-media. If you want to get true information about international events I advise to read more reliable sources. In the case of the Russian Olympic ban please care to read the IOC site. www.olympic.org

Siteadmin, this forum is really not a chat of a small north-americal party but the forum on the international organization's site. And when someone automatically puts the fake or anti-Russian negative information that he gets from the American media into this forum, then I ask to stop that, please.
Nowdays, during the information war that the USA carries in their mass media, we should not spread it to the internation sources, the ISU forum.

The IOC did not find any evidence of the involvement of the state officials in the violations of the doping rules in Russia. But of course the Russian Sports ministry bears the responsibility on everything that relates to the sports, the Sports of the higher achievements in Russia, and of course is responsible of any violations in this area. That's logically makes the then Russian sports minister guilty.

The manipulations with the samples were, in fact, done mainly by one person - Grigory Rodchenkov - the head of the Russian anti-doping laboratory (possibly with the help of few more people). His nomination on the position of the laboratory chief was actually approved by WADA and he worked closely with WADA under their control. The fact that he cheated with the samples in benefit to some athletes makes him guilty. In January 2016 Rodchenkov moved to the USA and became the main informant in the investigations initiated by WADA.
Why as the result of the investigations the sanctions were applied to the country by baning the flag and anthem? I can explain it the way that the IOC much depends on its sponsors, media companies who are mostly based in the USA.
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