WADA Report

Re: WADA Report

Postby Dragonlady » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:42 am

Ellen wrote:
wmari wrote: I inclined to think that what is in WADA report for the most part is very likely to be true.


Likely, unlikely... How do you know? Nobody still cared to give any worth evidence. All only keep repeating like mantra about Russian doping.

For me the most likely thing is that most of the US team sit on doping. Considering the latest revealed facts that the dozens top US athletes including the 4-times Rio gold medalist Simone Biles used the doping drugs regularly since 2010.
Those drugs that Williams sisters and Simone Biles were using are in the WADA's banned list as performance enhancing drugs. Even if it's for legit medical reasons if it gives them a huge advantage they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Take it to the extreme, someone without legs using a motorized wheelchair to compete in a marathon.
If the drug is in the banned list - it is not allowed to Everybody. It's plain and simple.

Maria Sharapova is still not allowed to compete for using Meldonium which is not performance enhancing medicine, even NHL officially allowed Meldonium. At the same time Serena and Vinus Williams have been taking very strong drugs - I wonder what they were diagnosed and who were the doctors that made those medical prescriptions.
If all is legal why then the facts, that the US athletes use doping, are kept secret by USADA?


Irina Slutskaya competed for many years while taking drugs for her heart condition which were banned for use by others. Irina provided medical proof that she needed the drugs and obtained permission to use it. Quite frankly I was amazed she was able to compete at all given some of the side effects of the drugs which she was taking, but this is a case where she followed the rules, obtained the permit to use the drug, and was allowed to compete.

The biggest difference I see between the American athletes who have been caught doping, and the Russian doping scandal is that the sports federations in the US are not doping their athletes or covering up their test results. It's not a systemic thing, it's individual coaches and athletes in the US and Canada who make these decision to cheat. In Russia, it seems the athletes weren't given a choice, and many didn't know what they were even taking.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Maleeva » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:31 am

Well stated DL and good example with Irina.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:27 pm

I recall Nicole Watt in Canada back in the early 2000's who had juvenile arthritis and competed. I was amazed she could compete at all (skate at all) after taking the medication she needed every week.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Writergirl » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:34 pm

Dragonlady wrote:Evgeny Plushenko has come out and said he's never taken drugs, and I tend to believe him. There is little value in skaters taking drugs, with the possible exception of Pairs. Over the years, few skaters have been nailed for drugs, and those that have, generally have taken them by accident, like cold medication.


So would Volosozhar/Trankov and Stolbova/Klimov come under fire for this?
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Re: WADA Report

Postby chuckiem » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:34 pm

Even pairs wouldn't benefit much from taking steroids. Steroids build muscle, but it also tends to make the athlete heavier and bulkier. More muscle might help the male in the partnership, but the change in body proportion would probably affect skating technique. Lifting is only one part of pairs---the skaters have to jump and spin as well, and steroids could make both more difficult. If the female partner took steroids, she would be heavier and bulkier---not good for her partner, and again the body proportion change might make it harder for her partner to throw her. Certainly her center of gravity would change, and that could have drastic effects on her ability to jump and land throws.

Overall, the risks of taking steroids would far outweigh any possible benefits with respect to figure skating, including pairs.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Virginia » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:33 am

You're probably right about steroids, chuckie. But the problem of performance-enhancing drugs goes far, far beyond steroids.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby GoFigure » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:33 am

The only skater I remember using steroids is Stanislav Morozov, former partner of Tatiana Volosozhar.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Virginia » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:52 pm

Back in 1991 Soviet ice dancer Marina Klimova tested positive for elevated testosterone at the European championships in Sofia, which it was believed suggested an artificial source -- a steroid. I remember that I, and nearly everyone else, was flabbergasted. Klimova, like most ice dancers, was extremely thin and lean. Steroids are supposed to bulk you up, and she was anything but bulky. It was inconceivable to me that she could have been using an anabolic steroid.

Sure enough, when the "B" sample was tested, Klimova was cleared. The blame was placed on the Bulgarian lab.

However, former Soviet Olympic pairs champion Irina Rodnina told Phil Hersh of the Chicago Tribune at the time that steroid use was routine on the Soviet figure skating team back in the 1970s, and that it was "endorsed by the country's highest sports authorities". Usage, however, was limited to male singles and pairs skaters, and only during the preseason ("August or September"). Nevertheless, this is more anecdotal evidence of a long-standing custom of Russian skating officials endorsing (or perhaps requiring) the use of performance-enchancing drugs.

Read about it here: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-02-14/sports/9101140379_1_marina-klimova-pairs-and-singles-skaters
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:07 am

The British Anti-doping agency UKAD confirmed that 53 of 366 athletes who competed in Rio used banned doping drugs with WADA's permission. That means that about 15% of the UK team officially sit on doping. Isn't this number TOO BIG?

At the same time the whole Russian paralympic team was banned from Rio Paralympic games. In spite of the fact that the Russian paralympic team PASSED all the required doping tests taken even outside of Russia.

How can it happen that so many Western normal healthy athletes were allowed to compete at the Rio Olympic Games in spite of taking doping. BUT the seriously ill persons, most disabled, they passed all doping tests - they were not allowed to compete at Paralympic games because of some allegations that some of them could not be clean.

The past events related to WADA really seriously compromise this organization.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby tennisfan » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:04 pm

You have to look at these on case by case basis. To say that these athletes with TUEs were doping in inaccurate and unfair. They have followed the rules and many these medications are common use for normal people for things like asthma but that require additional paperwork for athletes.

The banning of the entire Russian Paralympic team was unfortunate but is not the fault of WADA. If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the Russian sporting and government officials and organizations that decided that Russian athletes needed to cheat in order to win and were willing to take steps to cover it up.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:30 am

tennisfan wrote: If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the Russian sporting and government officials and organizations that decided that Russian athletes needed to cheat in order to win and were willing to take steps to cover it up.

That's the goal of all anti-Russian media propaganda - to make the Russian people angry against their government officials. :)
There is no systematic doping in Russia, of course. Existing incidents - a few exceptions, the same as in all other countries. Russia will prove that, but it make take some time.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby GoFigure » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:32 am

Ellen darling sweetie, is there another record in your jukebox perhaps?
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:49 am

GoFigure wrote:Ellen darling sweetie, is there another record in your jukebox perhaps?


No. :)
I will fight for my country's image to the bitter end!
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:34 pm

What about the athlete whistle blower though? There would be no incentive for that person to lie about this?
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Re: WADA Report

Postby siteadmin » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:58 pm

LOL..... please be careful with those patronizing type postings GoFigure. Ellen doesn't appear to be much bothered, but those with a thinner skin may not take it so well. It doesn't take much to spark a cold war around here.

Please and thank-you....
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Writergirl » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:03 pm

chuckiem wrote:Even pairs wouldn't benefit much from taking steroids. Steroids build muscle, but it also tends to make the athlete heavier and bulkier. More muscle might help the male in the partnership, but the change in body proportion would probably affect skating technique. Lifting is only one part of pairs---the skaters have to jump and spin as well, and steroids could make both more difficult. If the female partner took steroids, she would be heavier and bulkier---not good for her partner, and again the body proportion change might make it harder for her partner to throw her. Certainly her center of gravity would change, and that could have drastic effects on her ability to jump and land throws.

Overall, the risks of taking steroids would far outweigh any possible benefits with respect to figure skating, including pairs.


Thank you, just curious. Looking at it closer, both Volosozhar and Stolbova are very thin girls, I can't think they were on steroids to build muscle. There were some accusations about Stolbova a while back, but nothing was proven, and it's pretty much understood that it was hogwash made up as a diversion from real doping cases. As far as the men...Trankov and Klimov are definitely strong fellows, but I can't really see them as dopers either. Klimov does excellent SBS jumps, which would be tough to do on steroids, and Trankov plainly said that people who dope are cowards. I think the whole Sochi team is clear, so no medals should be stripped.

GoFigure wrote:The only skater I remember using steroids is Stanislav Morozov, former partner of Tatiana Volosozhar.


Stanislav Morozov would not have survived modern pairs skating. He came from the era when SBS jumps and spins were not important and the male partner's job was throwing and lifting (or at least that's how he and Tatiana always skated imo). So he could be a very big man and there weren't issues with the center of gravity. If Stanislav had to jump nowadays, doing 3-3-2 combos would be impossible for someone of his build.
When did he get caught for doping? I don't remember any of his medals being stripped.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby chuckiem » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:21 pm

As I recall, when Morozov skated with Tatiana, he was a poor spinner and an even worse jumper, who quite often fell. She was a standout, and he held her back.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Virginia » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:16 pm

The New York Times is reporting that the doping scandal has allegedly spiraled to include the New York marathon:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/sports/marathon-doping-investigation.html?emc=edit_na_20161103&nlid=18704971&ref=cta&_r=0

Note that individuals of multiple nationalities (American as well as Russian) are under investigation, and that nothing has been proven.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:30 pm

Running seems one of those events where doping could give you an advantage for sure. :(
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