WADA Report

Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 am

Russian athletes will have to make uneasy decision: go under a neutral flag or not to go to Korea. Everyone decides for himself, except maybe the hockey team, the curling team and the figure skaters considering the team event. I read more and more calls from former athletes to go even under a neutral flag. For example, Evgeniy Plushenko wrote that if he were to choose now, he would go.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby siteadmin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:14 pm

Ellen wrote:
bumphystars wrote:Siteadmin, this forum is really not a chat of a small north-americal party but the forum on the international organization's site. And when someone automatically puts the fake or anti-Russian negative information that he gets from the American media into this forum, then I ask to stop that, please.
Nowdays, during the information war that the USA carries in their mass media, we should not spread it to the internation sources, the ISU forum.


I'm sorry Ellen, but it's not up to me to decide what sources should or should not be used. I'm just trying to ensure that the insults are kept to a minimum.......the vocabulary clean as possible.... and the subject matter relevant. We have always encouraged posters to provide links to sources of information, but I hardly think it should be up to me to decide which ones should be believed. That is up to you folks.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Winnipeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm

sms29s66 wrote:Winnipeg, Russia boycotted the 1984 LA summer games when our gymnasts won gold, and whenever our gold medals are discussed, there is a mention of the fact that the Russians were not there, implying that their absence was a factor. The same thing will happen if Yvegenia Medvedeva (sp?) does not compete for patriotic reasons. Heck, it will probably happen even if her injury keeps her from competing. It might even happen if she competes, but is not up to par due to her injury. The ladies gold is hers to lose, so if she is not there, the eventual winner will have a cloud over her medal.



I guess there are other examples too when everyone was there and the winner was deemed as having been somewhat "lucky" eg Hughes, Urmanov, . Still you win a competition based on who is there regardless of injury, mistake of another skater, etc. etc.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby bumphystars » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:41 pm

Ellen wrote:
bumphystars wrote:
The IOC did not find any evidence of the involvement of the state officials in the violations of the doping rules in Russia. But of course the Russian Sports ministry bears the responsibility on everything that relates to the sports, the Sports of the higher achievements in Russia, and of course is responsible of any violations in this area. That's logically makes the then Russian sports minister guilty.


THIS. It was not just one sport that cheated, it was several. So, as you point out, the overall government body who governs sport then becomes complicit, whether they were actively involved in the cheating, turned a blind eye to it, or even worked to stamp it out. The fact is that it happened when it shouldn't have. And on their watch.

And, for the record, I'm not American.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby sms29s66 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:07 pm

I guess there are other examples too when everyone was there and the winner was deemed as having been somewhat "lucky" eg Hughes, Urmanov, . Still you win a competition based on who is there regardless of injury, mistake of another skater, etc. etc.



I know what you mean. In my house, we say that everyone else laid down and died so that whoever the surprise winner is could prevail.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:26 am

There is no Russsian respresentative in WADA and hence we have now this arbitrariness against the Russian athletes who are deprived of their medals. Just take the example when the Olympic medal from Sochi is taken from Aleksandr Tretiakov, the Worlds champion in sceleton, with the justification that a scratch was found on the outer surface of his test tube and he was mentioned in the Dushes list (which is actually the list of the potential medal winners and that list was prepared before the Olympics)...
Adelina Sotnikova was in that list also and WADA performed the investigation on Adelina as well but fortunately did not find any proof.
no comment...
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Re: WADA Report

Postby tennisfan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:43 am

Ellen wrote:Really? You must have read it in the Americal mass-media. If you want to get true information about international events I advise to read more reliable sources. In the case of the Russian Olympic ban please care to read the IOC site. http://www.olympic.org

Siteadmin, this forum is really not a chat of a small north-americal party but the forum on the international organization's site. And when someone automatically puts the fake or anti-Russian negative information that he gets from the American media into this forum, then I ask to stop that, please.
Nowdays, during the information war that the USA carries in their mass media, we should not spread it to the internation sources, the ISU forum.

The American media really doesn't care about the Olympics, and the American public (Canadian too) are not that interested until the games start. For most news outlets the IOC announcement was a one day story and even than the US sports news organizations often covered the information somewhere later in the coverage. ESPN had it mentioned for about 90 seconds and both ESPN and Sports Illustrated didn't have the story as one of the top sports story on their websites. NBC in the US, and CBC in Canada have had more coverage of the IOC and the Russian doping scandal in general, but only because they broadcast the Olympics, in other words they've got skin in the games. Both networks spend some resources to promote Olympic sports which the majority of sports coverage in North America ignores. The next day the statements from US ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley that the US may not attend the Olympic for security reasons related to North Korea received far more coverage than the IOC decision and that story has stuck around. Some of the US news networks have spend a fare amount time talking about this issue and whether the US should withdraw. Sports coverage in North America revolves around the 4 professional leagues, plus motor sports, golf, and tennis. Everything else is fringe, unless it's an Olympic event during the Olympics.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 pm

Your media devoted one minute to the event, which is the huge humiliation for the whole country, for athletes, for people.
The IOC meeting and the final speech of Thomas Bach on Dec 5th were broadcast live on Russia’s 1st (the central) channel. I personally waited for this decision with a sinking heart, hoping for the best but morally trying to prepare for the worst. Then the IOC decision was announced, that my country is not allowed to participate in the Olympics, but the athletes – the athletes who have already been checked for doping millions of times – still may ask for permission to be admitted. And if a special panel of three strange persons will deign to admit them, and if the federations and the IOC itself will not mind either, then they must be happy to be allowed to go. I personally was humiliated. My first reaction was - NOT go to Korea! We should not allow ourselves to be in such position.
Why did they need us without the flag and the anthem. Where is doping violation by WADA’s controlled organization RUSADA and where is the flag and anthem.
I imagine how Zhenya Medvedeva or Alina Zagitova will be asking permission to skate at the Olympics without the chance to hear the anthem. And somebody from WADA or from somewhere else will decide if Zhenya and Alina are clean enough to skate at the Olympics.
Or our hockey team will ask permission for Korea, and, if allowed, will play in some white T-shirts without the identification marks.
And after having got those humiliating permits they go to Pyongchang, then hundreds of “clean” foreign athletes with the therapeutic exceptions from WADA will speak out there something like “we do not want these Russians be here”.
Or someone like Meagan Duhamel writes in his/her Twitter muck about the Russian athletes. She and others like her better show their superiority over the Russians on ice, on the track rather than in their Twitter.
I hope that the Russian athletes will be strong enough not pay attention to all the dirt that pours on them.
I am also sure that the Russians will win the cases in CAS or other courts and will return their Sochi medals.
We will survive.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Virginia » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:15 pm

Ellen, based upon the evidence offered by WADA (which the IOC has accepted), every Russian athlete's performance at Sochi must now be regarded as suspect.

And every Russian medalist's name will have an asterisk next to it in most people's minds. There's no way now to know if those performances were truly "clean".

I know it's not what you want to hear, but this is how the situation stands.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:43 pm

Virginia wrote:Ellen, based upon the evidence offered by WADA (which the IOC has accepted), every Russian athlete's performance at Sochi must now be regarded as suspect.

In Russia we all know that the medals were won fair.
It is not that unusual when the sportsmen perform better on their home Olympiad. Canada won the most number of medals in Vancouver in 2010. China grabbed all medals at their home Olympiad in 2008. WADA did not do any investigations on doping then. Doesn't that huge success of China in 2008 look suspicious to you?

Virginia wrote:And every Russian medalist's name will have an asterisk next to it in most people's minds.

No. The Russian champions in Sochi were all in the elite of the sports that year. Take those who are now punished: Skier Alexander Legkov won the prestigious competition the Tour de Ski several weeks prior Sochi. The other skier Maxim Vylegzhanin had been one of the top skiers for many years and got medals at the World cups. A.Tretyakov in Skeleton competed in Sochi in the rank of reigning World Champion. In bobsleigh the Russian team had the advantage of the training at the home track more time than other teams, etc. We expected those medals from those sportsmen.

Virginia wrote:... but this is how the situation stands.

It is not how the situation stands. It is how it has been presented. Why shall I trust WADA? In the time of the Cold war when the organization (both WADA and the IOC) is funded mostly from the American budget and is managed almost only by the North-Americans, how can I trust this organization. If there were equal number of the representatives from the biggest sports countries then I would probably trust WADA.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Ellen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:48 pm

My post above doesn't relate straight to the figure skating, but this topic is very painful for me and not only me, so I ask to leave it here at this forum. Thank you.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby siteadmin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:16 pm

WADA, IOC, ISU and Figure Skating are all related to varying degrees, so the posts aren't a problem.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby tennisfan » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:52 am

Ellen wrote:My post above doesn't relate straight to the figure skating, but this topic is very painful for me and not only me, so I ask to leave it here at this forum. Thank you.

I can certainly understand that. I remember when Ben Johnson won the 100m final at the 1988 Seoul Olympics only to be stripped of the medal. It was very embarrassing for Canada to have the headlines splashed around the world. It was a difficult time for sport in Canada after that event. We had a formal investigation into doping in Canada which resulted in the Dubin Inquiry. Here is the final report:
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/c ... -1-eng.pdf
Starting on page 164 you can read all about the details of doping in different Canadian sport in the '80's. It details how athletes, and coaches tried to get around the doping controls. This is considered a watershed event in Canadian sport and though some positive tests still occur the frequency is a fraction of what happened in the '80's. I hope that Russia can have a similar moment regarding it's own issues with doping in sports and come back to competition clean and stronger than ever.
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Re: WADA Report

Postby Fiveohnine » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:39 pm

Ellen wrote:Your media devoted one minute to the event, which is the huge humiliation for the whole country, for athletes, for people.
The IOC meeting and the final speech of Thomas Bach on Dec 5th were broadcast live on Russia’s 1st (the central) channel. I personally waited for this decision with a sinking heart, hoping for the best but morally trying to prepare for the worst. Then the IOC decision was announced, that my country is not allowed to participate in the Olympics, but the athletes – the athletes who have already been checked for doping millions of times – still may ask for permission to be admitted. And if a special panel of three strange persons will deign to admit them, and if the federations and the IOC itself will not mind either, then they must be happy to be allowed to go. I personally was humiliated. My first reaction was - NOT go to Korea! We should not allow ourselves to be in such position.
Why did they need us without the flag and the anthem. Where is doping violation by WADA’s controlled organization RUSADA and where is the flag and anthem.
I imagine how Zhenya Medvedeva or Alina Zagitova will be asking permission to skate at the Olympics without the chance to hear the anthem. And somebody from WADA or from somewhere else will decide if Zhenya and Alina are clean enough to skate at the Olympics.
Or our hockey team will ask permission for Korea, and, if allowed, will play in some white T-shirts without the identification marks.
And after having got those humiliating permits they go to Pyongchang, then hundreds of “clean” foreign athletes with the therapeutic exceptions from WADA will speak out there something like “we do not want these Russians be here”.
Or someone like Meagan Duhamel writes in his/her Twitter muck about the Russian athletes. She and others like her better show their superiority over the Russians on ice, on the track rather than in their Twitter.
I hope that the Russian athletes will be strong enough not pay attention to all the dirt that pours on them.
I am also sure that the Russians will win the cases in CAS or other courts and will return their Sochi medals.
We will survive.

And now it’s been revealed that the woman in charge of allowing Russians in Pyeongchang Valérie Fourneyron wanted to ban all Russians from Rio Olympics and not only that wanted every sport to do what IAAF did and ban all Russians from every competition. So with her in charge it looks very likely now that no Russians will be in Pyeongchang.
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