2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Maleeva » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:34 pm

Yes I agree chuckie this program is a departure for chock and bates. I just don’t think it is a program that highlights their performing and skating abilities. And yes I meant Evan has lost his twizzling ability over the past two seasons. In his prime he did them with no problem.

Did anyone notice that judge number 8 gave Weaver and Poje a .25 for interpretation in the short dance? What the ...? I guess that was not a typo or the referee would have caught that error. I suppose that judge did not like how they interpreted the rumba LOL
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:54 pm

Maleeva wrote:Yes I agree chuckie this program is a departure for chock and bates. I just don’t think it is a program that highlights their performing and skating abilities. And yes I meant Evan has lost his twizzling ability over the past two seasons. In his prime he did them with no problem.

Did anyone notice that judge number 8 gave Weaver and Poje a .25 for interpretation in the short dance? What the ...? I guess that was not a typo or the referee would have caught that error. I suppose that judge did not like how they interpreted the rumba LOL



Remember several years ago his former partner sliced a tendon in Evan's ankle in a practice accident, keeping him off the ice for almost a year? Maybe his twizzle problems are a hangover effect of that injury.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:06 pm

RESULTS PAIRS FREESKATE

1 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 141.14 70.95 70.19 8.79 8.54 8.93 8.86 8.75 0.00 7
2 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 140.36 67.05 73.31 9.32 9.04 9.07 9.18 9.21 0.00 8
3 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 126.94 62.97 64.97 8.07 7.89 8.25 8.29 8.11 1.00 5
4 Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Dylan MOSCOVITCH CAN 126.71 62.49 64.22 8.00 7.89 8.07 8.07 8.11 0.00 6
5 Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 125.74 66.89 60.85 7.61 7.46 7.64 7.68 7.64 2.00 4
6 Marissa CASTELLI / Mervin TRAN USA 118.16 58.89 59.27 7.36 7.25 7.46 7.54 7.43 0.00 3
7 Lola ESBRAT / Andrei NOVOSELOV FRA 94.82 45.21 49.61 6.36 6.00 6.21 6.25 6.18 0.00 1
8 Zoe JONES / Christopher BOYADJI GBR 85.84 42.47 45.37 5.68 5.46 5.71 5.82 5.68 2.00 2


FINAL STANDINGS PAIRS

1 - Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 218.20 1 2
2 - Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 214.32 2 1
3 - Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 197.59 3 3
4 - Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Dylan MOSCOVITCH CAN 193.07 4 4
5 - Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 188.14 5 5
6 - Marissa CASTELLI / Mervin TRAN USA 177.15 6 6
7 - Lola ESBRAT / Andrei NOVOSELOV FRA 146.72 7 7
8 - Zoe JONES / Christopher BOYADJI GBR 130.43 8 8


GP FINALISTS TO DATE

30 (15,15) 465.60 SUI / HAN CHN
30 (15,15) 442.45 TARASOVA / MOROZOV RUS
26 (13,13) 427.17 STOLBOVA / KLIMOV RUS

On the bubble

24 (11,13) 428.69 JAMES / CIPRES FRA

SKATE AMERICA has three big players:

15 222.22 DUHAMEL / RADFORD CAN
13 215.66 SAVCHENKO / MASSOT GER
13 205.54 YU ZHANG CHN

and some lesser ones

11 194.52 MOORE-TOWERS / MARINARO CAN
9 192.70 ZABIJAKO / ENBERT RUS
7 192.51 SCIMECA-KNIERIM / KNIERIM USA

Anything can happen....
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Maleeva » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:04 pm

I sure hope James and Cipres qualify for the GPF.
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:54 pm

RESULTS MEN FREESKATE

1 Shoma UNO JPN 179.40 90.20 91.20 9.32 9.00 8.89 9.18 9.21 2.00 10 4lo, 3a, 3z, 4f<, 4t<↓, 4t+rep, 3a+1lo+3f↓, 3s+2t
2 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 175.85 85.49 92.36 9.43 9.07 8.93 9.36 9.39 2.00 11 4t, 4s+2t, 3a, 4s↓, 3lo, 3a<↓+rep, 3z, 3f+1lo+3s
3 Misha GE UZB 172.93 86.09 86.84 8.57 8.46 8.79 8.64 8.96 0.00 8 3a+1lo+3s, 3a, 3f!, 3z+3t, 3z, 3lo, 2a, 2a+2t
4 Alexander SAMARIN RUS 161.62 82.84 79.78 8.18 7.75 8.00 8.00 7.96 1.00 9 4z, 4t↓, 3a, 3a+2t, 3z+2t, 3z, 3lo, 2a
5 Alexei BYCHENKO ISR 160.65 80.51 80.14 8.00 7.71 8.04 8.21 8.11 0.00 7 4t+3t, 4t, 2lo, 3a, 3a+1t, 2z, 3f+1lo+2s, 2a
6 Max AARON USA 158.56 82.70 75.86 7.86 7.32 7.54 7.64 7.57 0.00 4 4t+2t, 2s, 3lo, 4t<, 3a+2t, 3a, 3z+1lo+3s, 2a
7 Vincent ZHOU USA 156.09 88.57 69.52 7.18 6.68 6.86 7.11 6.93 2.00 1 4z+3t, 4f↓, 4s+2t, 1z, 2t, 4z<↓, 3a, 3z+1lo+3f
8 Moris KVITELASHVILI GEO 153.52 75.52 79.00 8.00 7.68 7.79 8.07 7.96 1.00 6 3a, 4s↓, 4t+3t, 2t, 3f+2t, 2lo, 3f, 2a+1lo+3s
9 Kevin AYMOZ FRA 150.43 73.21 77.22 7.68 7.39 7.79 7.82 7.93 0.00 5 3a+3t<, 3a, 3z, 3z+2t, 2a, 3f!, 3lo, 3s+2lo+2lo
10 Denis TEN KAZ 144.87 63.01 83.86 8.46 8.18 8.11 8.57 8.61 2.00 3 4s, 4t↓, 3a, 3a↓+rep, 2f, 3lo, 3t, 2a
11 Romain PONSART FRA 134.31 63.25 71.06 7.18 6.71 7.25 7.21 7.18 0.00 2 4t+2t, 3a, 2t, 1a, 3lo, 3z+1lo+2s, 3s, 2a



FINAL STANDINGS MEN

1 - Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 283.71 1 2
2 - Shoma UNO JPN 273.32 2 1
3 - Misha GE UZB 258.34 6 3
4 - Alexander SAMARIN RUS 253.13 3 4
5 - Alexei BYCHENKO ISR 247.44 5 5
6 - Moris KVITELASHVILI GEO 240.50 4 8
7 - Max AARON USA 237.20 8 6
8 - Denis TEN KAZ 228.57 7 10
9 - Vincent ZHOU USA 222.21 10 7
10 - Kevin AYMOZ FRA 220.43 9 9
11 - Romain PONSART FRA 198.12 11 11


CURRENT GP FINALISTS

28 (15,13) 574.42 Shoma UNO JPN
26 (11,15) 550.44 Mikhail KOLYADA RUS


Next Week at SKATE AMERICA:

15 293.79 Nathan CHEN USA
15 271.12 Sergei VORONOV RUS
13 264.48 Boyang JIN CHN
13 261.99 Adam RIPPON USA


Also----On the bubble should something unusual happen:

22 (13,09) 507.09 Jason BROWN USA
20 (15,05) 536.77 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby sms29s66 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:36 am

I would be so pleased if Jason and Javier were to make it to the final. I have such a soft spot for Jason. And I've really become a fan of Javier's in the past three years. His short program in France was really sublime, and I have high hopes for his long program. it is just perfect for him. I want him to get all the competition time possible prior to the Olympics. Then I will have a real dilemma. I love Nathan, Yuzuru, Shomo, Adam, Jason, and Javier. The men's competition ought to be the best I've ever seen in my 69 years.
sms29s66
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby tennisfan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:34 am

Maleeva wrote:Even if Javi wins in France, he mathematically cannot qualify for the GPF, correct?

I don't think it's mathematically impossible, it's just improbable because there are four skaters (Chen, JIn, Rippon, & Voronov) who have a 1st or 2nd place finish from their first event and they would all be ahead of Fernandez if they finished in the top 4 at Skate America. If the results from Skate America are all over the place, then there is a chance he could sneak into the final.
tennisfan
 
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:52 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby tennisfan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:35 am

sms29s66 wrote:Re: Javi and Brian. I had exactly the same thought. Maybe skaters really DO need their coaches rinkside when they compete.

Apparently Fernandez had food poisoning in China and that's why he wasn't able to skate well.
tennisfan
 
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:52 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Maleeva » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:37 pm

tennisfan wrote:
Maleeva wrote:Even if Javi wins in France, he mathematically cannot qualify for the GPF, correct?

I don't think it's mathematically impossible, it's just improbable because there are four skaters (Chen, JIn, Rippon, & Voronov) who have a 1st or 2nd place finish from their first event and they would all be ahead of Fernandez if they finished in the top 4 at Skate America. If the results from Skate America are all over the place, then there is a chance he could sneak into the final.


Thanks tennisfan. Gosh this was an underwhelming men’s event. Low scores were had by all. I have to say Samarin is my least fav of the Russian men right now. I find his poor back posture very distracting and for me he has little interpretation of the music. M Ge was a joy to watch. He skates a bit slow for my taste, but with all of the falls in this event, it sure was nice to see one man deliver clean, effortless jumps, that are pleasing to the eye.
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby chuckiem » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:06 pm

I did not enjoy Samarin much as a junior, and I like him even less as a senior. He is all about jumps and nothing else. Of the younger men, Aliev is much, much better when it comes to performing, but knowing Dmitri and his nerves, it's going to take a while for him to settle down into his new role as a senior skater.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Virginia » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:30 pm

I haven't seen the men's free programs yet, but I watched the shorts. My thoughts:

Samarin reminds me of a young Plushenko. Tall, storklike body with huge jumps and no artistry.

Misha Ge: nice skate -- but what was with the hand-flapping that opened his short program?

This Isareli fellow, Bychenko, impressed me. Hadn't seen him before that I can recall.

As for the American boys? Neither did himself any favors in terms of Olympic selection. Vincent Zhou especially seems to be struggling with the expectations of a second-year-senior who won a silver medal at Nationals his first year.

At this point, I think the most likely US Olympic selections are Chen (a shoo-in), Rippon (especially if he keeps skating like he did in his first GP) and ???. Neither Max Aaron or Vincent Zhou delivered here, and it's hard for me to picture the USFSA selecting Jason Brown without a successful quad on his resume. On the other hand, he's got Olympic experience.
Virginia
 
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby sms29s66 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:48 pm

Virginia wrote:I haven't seen the men's free programs yet, but I watched the shorts. My thoughts:

Samarin reminds me of a young Plushenko. Tall, storklike body with huge jumps and no artistry.


Huge jumps and no artistry yes, but I don't see any physical resemblance at all.
sms29s66
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Dragonlady » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:00 am

Sorry I have been MIA for so long. My computer died suddenly and I forgot my password, since I was always logged on automatically, and I haven’t been able to access the board. Even worse, the local library has blocked this website as a newsnet Group. Today I was finally able to log on with my phone. I’ve missed you all so much.

I have serious issues with the young Russians girls doing all of their jumping passes in the back half of the program and with hands over their heads. The former constitutes an “unbalanced program” and should be banned, and hands over the head should be limited the same way the Bielman position is restricted to 2 elements. The balanced program rule already exists and should be enforced.

I’m still watching videos but the men were disappointing to say the least. The exception being Misha Ge who skated beautifully.
Dragonlady
 
Posts: 5343
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Niagara Escarpment

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby sms29s66 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:15 am

Dragonlady, I'm glad you mentioned a balanced program requirement. I've been thinking about these back-loaded programs all season wondering what rule could be implementd. I was thinking that a jump in the first half of the short program, and at least two jumping passes in the first half of the long program might be a good start.
sms29s66
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Maleeva » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:55 am

Just watched the pairs. Sorry, but James/Cip should have won the free by 4 points and thus the gold medal at this event. They won the TES as they should have but the judges really screwed up giving Tar/Mor the PCS win by over 3 points.

I’m fine with Tar/Mor having a bit higher PCS on skating skills, transitions and even composition. But with these specific programs, James/Cip should be all 9s for performance and interpretation of the music and Tar/Mor straight 8s for those two PCS elements. Tar/Mor could have been skating to any music with this program and they for sure were not interpreting Candyman by Christina Auguilera LOL.

James/Cip delivered a emotionally resonant program that reached the audience and TV viewers, yet they received 8.75 overall for interpretation and Tar/Mor received 9.21 for interpretation. I think what judges tend to do too often is they use the skating skills score as their baseline for all of their PCS marks and don’t vary the rest of the PCS marks enough from the skating skills mark. So yes, award Tar/Mor for their amazing skating skills, they have speed and great edges for days, but please, please, please, do not give them straight 9s for delivering a mediocre interpretation of pop dance music.
Maleeva
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Louisville

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Dragonlady » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:57 am

sms29s66 wrote:Dragonlady, I'm glad you mentioned a balanced program requirement. I've been thinking about these back-loaded programs all season wondering what rule could be implementd. I was thinking that a jump in the first half of the short program, and at least two jumping passes in the first half of the long program might be a good start.


A “balanced program” to me means half the jumping passes in each half - all of the elements disbursed evenly throughout the program. The bonus for jumps in the last half of the program came about because so many skaters were front loading their programs with jumps. Skaters like Plushenko would spend the first two minutes stroking around throwing jumps, and really only start to perform their programs once the jumps were out of the way. Now we’re seeing the reverse of that.

Plushenko was not the only skater front loading by any means but his was especially noticeable because he never did much in the way of choreography at the best of times. Stojko, Tim Goebel - nearly all of the big jumpers did it.
Dragonlady
 
Posts: 5343
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Niagara Escarpment

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby chuckiem » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:06 am

The Russian ladies cannot get a deduction for backloading their programs, because the current rules allow it.

As DL said, the bonus was given to discourage skaters from front-loading their programs, which many were doing. What the ISU did not foresee was the opposite happening, extreme backloading, so did not put limits on the bonus. The same applies to throwing arms over head, which has been way, way overdone to the point of absurdity.

Over this past quadrennial, the Russian girls coming up were trained to take advantage of these point-maximizers, to the dismay of their competitors.

We can only hope that post Olympic rules will limit the number of jumps that can get the bonus, as well as the arms-up +GOE on jumps. But for now, there can be no deduction for backloading, and the arms up will continue to get bullet points for +GOE.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby chuckiem » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:10 am

Samarin may be all jumps, but he does not command the ice or the attention of the audience the way Plushenko did. When Plushy jumped, he not only got air, but he also got distance across the ice on his jumps. I have noticed that Samarin goes straight up and comes down hard and heavy, and doesn't cover much ice on his jumps.

The only skater who gets air+distance (and even more than Plushy) is Hanyu.
chuckiem
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:03 pm

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby Andy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:42 am

chuckiem wrote:The Russian ladies cannot get a deduction for backloading their programs, because the current rules allow it.

As DL said, the bonus was given to discourage skaters from front-loading their programs, which many were doing. What the ISU did not foresee was the opposite happening, extreme backloading, so did not put limits on the bonus. The same applies to throwing arms over head, which has been way, way overdone to the point of absurdity.

Over this past quadrennial, the Russian girls coming up were trained to take advantage of these point-maximizers, to the dismay of their competitors.

We can only hope that post Olympic rules will limit the number of jumps that can get the bonus, as well as the arms-up +GOE on jumps. But for now, there can be no deduction for backloading, and the arms up will continue to get bullet points for +GOE.


It is not about deduction, it is about correct application of the CoP. And in fact we run in circles. So: the bonus was introduced to encourage the distribution of the jump passes across the whole program, simply because the judges did not use the choreo and transition marks to reflect the unbalances in composition. Now, we swung the other way around - again, if judges used the CoP the way it was supposed to be, there would be no back loading. In my opinion, the only bonuses should be given for combo's or sequences, but this is an entire different story.
Andy
Andy
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:27 am
Location: Flowerland

Re: 2017 GP #5 TDF Nov 17-19 Grenoble FRA

Postby bumphystars » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:53 pm

Dragonlady wrote:Sorry I have been MIA for so long. My computer died suddenly and I forgot my password, since I was always logged on automatically, and I haven’t been able to access the board. Even worse, the local library has blocked this website as a newsnet Group. Today I was finally able to log on with my phone. I’ve missed you all so much.

I have serious issues with the young Russians girls doing all of their jumping passes in the back half of the program and with hands over their heads. The former constitutes an “unbalanced program” and should be banned, and hands over the head should be limited the same way the Bielman position is restricted to 2 elements. The balanced program rule already exists and should be enforced.

I’m still watching videos but the men were disappointing to say the least. The exception being Misha Ge who skated beautifully.



Welcome back, DL! I wondered why you had gone AWOL, in an Olympic season, no less!
bumphystars
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:25 pm
Location: Toronto

PreviousNext

Return to Figure Skating

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests